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Failure to think

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Failure to think - Fri Jan 03, 2003, 04:09 PM
(#1)
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Deleted.
 
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Fri Jan 03, 2003, 04:35 PM
(#2)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
What is the mistake here? Was it the fold? Or was it the initial bet/raise that gets one into these predicaments? If you have made a mistake and realized after your bet should you continue to throw good chips after bad?

At some point in a tournament you MUST be willing to follow through for all of your chips whenever you have entered a pot. When the money is shallow ask your self this question:

Is this a situation where I am willing to bust out?

Note the use of "situation" as opposed to "cards". Everything must be considered, your position and current image, opponents tendacies and image, relative stacks, and your individual goal for this event.
 
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Fri Jan 03, 2003, 05:39 PM
(#3)
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Where has PSO "taught" people to make incorrect decisions, like this? I haven't seen that. I do believe there are some people who don't realize this basic concept, and perhaps are not taking advantage of the posts in the forum, that have pointed these obvious situations out, but I've never seen anything from PSO teaching anyone to save their last chip in that kind of situation.

8O
'Goddess
 
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Fri Jan 03, 2003, 05:45 PM
(#4)
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Fri Jan 03, 2003, 06:57 PM
(#5)
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Folding a huge pot for your last $25 is either:
1. very very stupid
2. collusion
3. very very stupid
4. there is no 4th option

But we've all seen it (or similar) more than a few times.
I go for stupid, but what can you do? Is it much more stupid than calling a huge NLHE preflop bet with A3o? And that happens all the time.
It's OK calling this "School", but real School requires tests, grades, progression etc etc. PSO is superb, but it ain't "School" until there's some structure.
Meanwhile, crazy stuff happens all the time. So be it.
Let's play.
If Mark wants to introduce grading, examinations, re-sitting years of study and so on that would also be good, but don't hold your breath.
Just play. That's all there is.

cheers

Glenn
 
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Fri Jan 03, 2003, 07:51 PM
(#6)
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sorry, i made all those plays, i must confess. but i am still learning! :wink:
 
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Fri Jan 03, 2003, 08:05 PM
(#7)
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:twisted:
 
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Fri Jan 03, 2003, 08:12 PM
(#8)
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Deleted.
 
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Fri Jan 03, 2003, 08:23 PM
(#9)
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ops:
 
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Re: Failure to think - Fri Jan 03, 2003, 08:25 PM
(#10)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehazyone
This, in my opinion, is terrible play
Well, it isn't in my opinion. It is fact.
 
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Fri Jan 03, 2003, 08:26 PM
(#11)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokergoddess
Where has PSO "taught" people to make incorrect decisions, like this?
Where has it taught them not to?
 
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Re: Failure to think - Fri Jan 03, 2003, 11:55 PM
(#12)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehazyone
Hand #1 - MP player limps, three callers on an unraised pot. Flop comes 37T two clubs. Blinds check, MP player bets pot (this is PLHE), BB is only caller. Turn is the 2 of clubs. BB checks, MP bets pot, BB raises all in for $25 more - MP player folds.
Even if there is only $2500 in the pot MP is getting 100:1 pot odds. Even 7-2o and 3-2o are playable for those odds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehazyone
Hand #2 - Short stack in PLHE tourney raises UTG pot size for a total of 3500, leaving them with around 2200 with the 500/1000 blinds coming up. LP player raises all in. UTG raiser folds.
Pot adds are about 4.5:1. Any hand a UTG could raise with, even a loose player, is worth the call. A stone cold bluff when your stack is only 5 big blinds is poker suicide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehazyone
Hand #3 - Short stack has 3025 left in PLHE tourney with 1000/2000 blinds. Short stack folds to raises in both BB and SB leaving themself with $25.
The short stack was getting 5:1 odds in each situation. The best time for them to move in was UTG. They must get lucky and UTG gives them the highest payback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehazyone
I know Apryll also shared with me a hand where someone folded for $50 with 50,000 in the middle.
Someone passed up 10,000:1 odds. :roll: They probably bought a million-to-one lottery ticket with the $50. :lol:
 
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Sat Jan 04, 2003, 12:40 AM
(#13)
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I will confess to being the player in situation #3 And here is the situation from my perspective.

Yes i did have $3025 in chips on the BB for 2k my cards were 83 off
i folded to a raise leaving me with $1025

On my SB my cards were 3 6 off the pot was raised and i folded leaving me with $25.

My thinking was this: at that point there were 5 players remaining in the tournament that started with 33. The money paid the top 4 players. I had at this point after my AKs lost to 66 given up on the chance to win once i saw my BB cards. I folded the SB because i knew i would have $25 there were no antes so my hope was that in the coming hands before my BB would take out my $25 someone else would get knocked out thus putting me into 4th place and in the money. The strategy didn't work i still finished 5th. In summary i knew my cards in the BB & SB were no good and left $25 to try and last till someone got knocked out putting me in the money since there were no antes.

Thief 21
 
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Sat Jan 04, 2003, 01:27 AM
(#14)
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Deleted.
 
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Sat Jan 04, 2003, 01:53 AM
(#15)
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Thanks for the advice hazy i see your point, i think that sometimes i play a little weak when near the bubble and that hand was a good example of it. I thank you for spending the time to try and help me.

Thief 21
 
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Sat Jan 04, 2003, 02:35 AM
(#16)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
If you are willing to play a random hand from the BB why not play one UTG. You have the chance to pick up both blinds instead of just the SB (more dead money available).
 
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Sat Jan 04, 2003, 02:45 AM
(#17)
Deleted user
joes got the right idea here when you got such small stack that blinds will kill you get the chips in before you get to blinds.

added advantage of going in UTG is that you proberly get more callers all trying to knock you out giving you a chance to win a much bigger stack.
 
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Sat Jan 04, 2003, 10:18 AM
(#18)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thief 21
I folded the SB because i knew i would have $25 there were no antes so my hope was that in the coming hands before my BB would take out my $25 someone else would get knocked out thus putting me into 4th place and in the money
Well, were there other stacks likely to bust? Were they gambling it up or were they waiting for you to go bust? What were teh differences in payout. What was your best result in terms of finishing position with regards folding and calling? I probably call in the BB, assuming I didn't move-in UTG or on any of the other hands that round leading upto the BB. It's usually best to find a spot whilst you can still put in a big enough raise to steal by putting in at least a pot size all-in. If you have no chance of stealing at a loose table, then try to find a hand to gamble against a loose call. If you have a chance of stealing, then maybe up to any 2 cards depending on the estimated chances of stealing.

Quote:
i think that sometimes i play a little weak when near the bubble and that hand was a good example of it. I thank you for spending the time to try and help me.
Around the bubble is where you should be getting aggressive against the other players fearful of busting. Taking chances of busting yourself in order to get a stack. This is a big part of tournament play that PSO fails to simulate due to most players not being aware of the bubble etc.
 
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Sat Jan 04, 2003, 09:11 PM
(#19)
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:?:
 

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