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Pocket tens

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Pocket tens - Fri Jan 10, 2003, 10:28 AM
(#1)
Deleted user
It's late in a real money, online poker game. We started with a 117 and we're down to 26.

I am medium stacked at a table with 2 giant stacks and 4 medium stacks and a tiny stack who has survived his last all-in.

I am in the BB and there are 4 callers plus the sb calls. I have pocket tens. Both big stacks have called. One of them has shown an unwillingness to lay down KJo to a big raise pre-flop, so I think he's calling an all-in bet.

Is it better to check and see the flop? or is it better to go all-in. This was the first time there had been so many limpers in a pot for about 40 minutes. It is possible for the first limper (good player medium stack) to have AA and be looking for a limp re-raise, though unlikely. But I really hadn't seen him limp from early position.

I suspect an all-in gets called by at least the one big stack. He is 2nd to act after me and his call might invite other callers? or maybe everybody calls because it's crapshoot time? or maybe they all fold, but I doubt that.

I'm so confused and I feel like this should be automatic at this point.

I have a 2nd question also, and it's basically the same as above, but the early stages of a tourney and I have QQ. An all-in probably wins a small pot against a lot of limpers. but pot raise is probably called by several loose players and I'm out of position if an A or K falls.

Any and all help is much appreciated.

Peace, Starrs LSOGC E2C
 
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Fri Jan 10, 2003, 11:21 AM
(#2)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
If you don't think you can take the pot then and there, play it like a middle pair and hope to flop a set.
 
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Fri Jan 10, 2003, 12:23 PM
(#3)
Deleted user
Agree with Joe, broadly speaking, but it will also depend on factors like -
1. how close are you to the money ?
2. how long will your medium stack last ?
3. your table image.

Unfortunately(?) raising big from the BB after limpers is a fairly common steal tactic and might not get much respect , but mebbe you want to take a chance here on doubling/tripling up. But it depends :wink:

cheers
 
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Fri Jan 10, 2003, 05:11 PM
(#4)
Deleted user
Impossible to say without better stack and pot size information.

Having said that. Generally, without any extra information to change my mind, if the first limper is unlikely to have AA or KK, then I'm all in baby!
 
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Sun Jan 12, 2003, 12:48 PM
(#5)
Deleted user
I went all-in with my pocket tens. It was folded around to the small blind who thought for a bit and finally called. I had him slightly outchipped. I assume he thought I was bluffing, because he had A6 suited. So I got about the best result possible, except that the flop came 6,6,4.

I'm still not sure I played this well. But it seems like I would have been okay either checking pre-flop or going all-in. My main worry was, due to the shallowness of the money and size of the pot already, creating a family pot and being all-in with pocket tens against 5 other players. Thanks for the responses.

Peace, Starrs LSOGC E2C

PS. I cannot remember and don't have written down the exact stack sizes or the blinds otherwise I would post them.
 
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Agree w. TJ - Mon Jan 13, 2003, 04:09 PM
(#6)
Deleted user
With 5 limpers, it's likely at least 1 is going to call - and that's what happened.

In the BB, why not take the "free" flop, then decide.

KQJ, you're toast!
K98 - be very careful!
962 - all-in.
T73 - It's good to be the King!! All-in, Check-raise - what's your style??

I think the combination of the middle pairs (88 to TT or even JJ) and lots of callers is an explosive - potentially deadly - combination. It seems to me it gets seriously overplayed during the early and middle stages - and with 26 left, you're in late-middle stage!

OTOH, I understand noodles point of view.

I just think you're just close to a coin flip - and is flipping coins what you want to be doing at this point with a middle stack?? Your call!
 
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Re: Agree w. TJ - Mon Jan 13, 2003, 07:50 PM
(#7)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Bat 07
I just think you're just close to a coin flip - and is flipping coins what you want to be doing at this point with a middle stack?? Your call!
What makes you think it would be a coin flip? Just what crap are these people limping with in the first place that they would then call and put us in a coinflip situation? If they are bad enough to call with AJ or KT or whatever the 2 overcards are, is it not also possible that they can call with an underpair, or A9s or whatever? Assuming, of course that our raise will get headsup. The only player to really be concerned about is the first limper. After that, we are probably not against much if we are called. What do you think?

Of course, if the all-in raise is likely to get multiple callers, then don;t raise all-in.
 
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Mon Jan 13, 2003, 07:57 PM
(#8)
Deleted user
Quote:
I have a 2nd question also, and it's basically the same as above, but the early stages of a tourney and I have QQ. An all-in probably wins a small pot against a lot of limpers. but pot raise is probably called by several loose players and I'm out of position if an A or K falls.
Out of position against a field of limpers, you can limp if you like but it's just as dangerous as raising. With a lot of limpers, is the pot really not worth winning? If playing seriously, I would usually raise up to 2X the pot in order to charge a premium price for my opponents to see the flop with position. Then take it from there. See what happens. If you get one caller, and the flop has no ace or K, and you then bet a proper bet, don't automatically fold if you get raised all-in. It depends. In fact, I think you should usually call under those circumstances.
 
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Re: Pocket tens - Wed Jan 15, 2003, 02:09 PM
(#9)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starrs
I am in the BB and there are 4 callers plus the sb calls. I have pocket tens. Both big stacks have called. One of them has shown an unwillingness to lay down KJo to a big raise pre-flop, so I think he's calling an all-in bet.

Is it better to check and see the flop? or is it better to go all-in.
If you believe an all-in bet can get all or most of your opponents to release their hands, go ahead and make it. In fact, if you believe an all-in bet can get all but one opponent to fold, you're probably better off (not to mention a favorite) against any one opponent than against a bunch of limpers.

But if you think you'll be called in a couple of places, your pair of tens is really a pair of deuces! You can call and either flop a set or get out. Even if the board is ragged and your tens are an overpair to the flop there is still some danger to your hand.

Some additional information would have helped in analyzing this hand. What, for example, was your objective? Did you want to win the tourney or just make the money? How big were the blinds and antes in relation to your stack size? When were the betting limits about to go up? There's a lot of environmental stuff that's helpful to know because it allows the hand to be analyzed with somewhat more precision.
 

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