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good question

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good question - Wed Oct 23, 2002, 03:46 AM
(#1)
Deleted user
here's a good question from another post

jcastle wrote:


Quote:
8. Will bankrolls be reset in the new year?
we all know that the ratings will, but will the bankrolls?

My opinion (for what it is worth, probably -$0.02), the shouldn't restart, if you are out in the real world, you might restart your stats every year, but you are still playing with the same money. Wouldn't this be similer.

can i have an answer and other peoples opinions?
thanks
 
Old
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Re: good question - Wed Oct 23, 2002, 05:26 AM
(#2)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by aha12877
Quote:
8. Will bankrolls be reset in the new year?
we all know that the ratings will, but will the bankrolls?
I heard that ratings will be reset, but missed the discussion. A forum search doesn't find it.

Why are ratings being reset?
Why not just give more weight to newer results, the way they do in golf?

Cheers
 
Old
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Wed Oct 23, 2002, 06:57 AM
(#3)
Deleted user
if the rankings are reset, it would only be fair to reset the bankrolls, too. it wouldn't make any sense to keep them since they are a lot more skewed than the rankings stats and don't have any meaning while the rankings do. all add-on events should be eliminated (along with all multi-table freerolls) with an extra deduciton for "entry fees" to give a more accurate assessment of bankroll.

i don't believe the rankings should be reset though. pso should just replace the current cumulative rankings with minpin's multi-table stats from his pso details report which provides true cumulative stats for multi-table, single-table and combined events. it's that simple. just keep the cumulative while making one specifically for the new year.

so, pso staff (mark, tina, megan, kevin, et al), what's going to happen with the bankrolls and rankings on jan 1st? please elaborate on your reasoning, too. thanks.

JCastle
 
Old
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Wed Oct 23, 2002, 10:48 AM
(#4)
Deleted user
rankings are being reset (according to MARK) on jan the 1st due to the amount of room they take up
no mention was ever made about BR and i for one would be very unhappy if BR was reset before i get to use it in a big tourny like i was promised 12 months ago when i thought i would never have a BR.

the post mark made the annoucement was about the changes to the school post the big one
 
Old
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Wed Oct 23, 2002, 11:22 AM
(#5)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironside
rankings are being reset (according to MARK) on jan the 1st due to the amount of room they take up
Thanks Iron, but "Oh dear!". If there's no room for a few thousand bytes per player to track rankings, then the legendary "PSO poker database", which would be hugely bigger, must be getting zapped as we go along. I thought disk storage cost pennies these days. This is all a bit hard to fathom.

p.s. g00t luck in that tournament Iron ! You might find it a bit 'aggressive' but I'm sure you can cope with that :wink:

cheers

Glenn
 
Old
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Wed Oct 23, 2002, 11:34 AM
(#6)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironside
rankings are being reset (according to MARK) on jan the 1st due to the amount of room they take up
Well, that's just absurd. How long until the disks get full again and our results are wiped clean again? This makes me very glad I keep track of my stats independent from PSO.

If we're unable to track our complete progress as we go along, instead of for some arbitrary period of time, what is the point to having a ranking system in the first place?

Chris
 
Old
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Wed Oct 23, 2002, 11:35 AM
(#7)
Deleted user
special note to Ironside

Iron, we have been in this thing a long time now and played a lot of tournaments together. I'll probably never forget that one big pot where we both had big hands. Anyway, I knew that you would have a nice bankroll. I was sort of pulling for you even when you told me you would pass me on the bankroll list.

But, I too hope we don't get zeroed out of our bankrolls.
 
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rosita - I Agree - Wed Oct 23, 2002, 12:30 PM
(#8)
Deleted user
I agree with your suggestion, rosita, that Ratings be calculated based only on recent efforts - much like a golf or bowling handicap.

In fact, I've posted that suggestion several times in the past. Each time it attracted a few responses disagreeing with the concept. Although, frankly, I don't pay much attentin to the Cums any more.

I still think, however, that the idea of a Cumulative value extending back till the beginning of time is, at a minimum, silly. Even a felon gets to start fresh, in theory, when they've served their time.

Once someone has accumulated a few hundred games, it takes an incredible run of success to budge the rating even a small bit.

I still think the only the last "n" games & tourneys should count. What is the correct "n" to use? I'm open. Last 50, last 75, last 60 days - whatever.
- or like golf, the best 50 of the last 75 games & tourneys - or some such.

In any case, I'm TOTALLY OPPOSED any "zeroing" of the bankrolls. I can't even believe that's being considered. Everyone's worked too hard to accumulate or not accumulate them, whichever.
 
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Wed Oct 23, 2002, 12:53 PM
(#9)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Dropping the cumulative ranking is no great disservice, Replacing it with the same thing with a new start date will be a major dissapointment.

The weekly stats are, IMO, entirely useless and possibly misleading. One week, 3 game minimum, means you hit a hot streak unless you are consistently near the top of the list, in which case you will be on the longer term rankings as well.

What is desparately needed is a long-term rolling average. I use 200 games (combined sats and multi) for my personal tracking. However, I would not argue against having 13 week, 26 week, and 52 week rolling stats available. Having net winnings for the same periods would be a huge bonus.

As several of us have stated numerous time before, having this data for individual games is even better.

I hope that bankrolls are not going to be reset. It is the growth of my bankroll that gives me the greatest sense of accomplishment. I don't know if I will stay if that is taken away.
 
Old
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Wed Oct 23, 2002, 02:34 PM
(#10)
Deleted user
i think the rating should be reset, it lets the players that improved start over and it also levels the playing field from pre sats rating and post sats rating.

bankroll should remain unchanged
 
Old
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Wed Oct 23, 2002, 02:47 PM
(#11)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by aha12877
i think the rating should be reset, it lets the players that improved start over and it also levels the playing field from pre sats rating and post sats rating.
Couldn't this be achieved without removing fifteen months' worth of data from the database? Why not just add a "yearly ranking" statistic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aha12877
bankroll should remain unchanged
If we're levelling the playing field with respect to ratings, wouldn't it make sense to level it with respect to bankrolls as well?

For the record, I think both should stay as they are.

Chris
 
Old
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Wed Oct 23, 2002, 02:56 PM
(#12)
Deleted user
ok. you worked so hard to get the bankroll you have, but what does that mean? what's your bankroll going to be used for? it's play money!

initially, it was implied that there was going to be a 10k event where the winner would get something like a huge sponsorship (that would have been good use for the WPO 10k seat), but those previous hints by mark have never been followed through. he emphasized the need to build a bankroll, but for what reason now? what purpose does this unrealistic bankroll serve?

if there isn't any use for them, reset them. let us start from square one and try to build a bankroll from scratch with all of the add-ons and freeroll events removed. that will be the best lesson, but i guess most of the students aren't here to actually learn how to play well enough to build a more realistic bankroll. now that's a shame.

JCastle
 
Old
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Wed Oct 23, 2002, 04:02 PM
(#13)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCastle
ok. you worked so hard to get the bankroll you have, but what does that mean? what's your bankroll going to be used for? it's play money!
What do I have?

A virtual bankroll that only has value for use as PSO buy-ins.

A measure that my game is changing, theoretically for the better.

A sense of accomplishment that I have managed to be +EV in both multis and sats.



I think that is better than measuring success by the number of 'goot players' I have knocked out when my 7-2o hit.
 
Old
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Wed Oct 23, 2002, 04:21 PM
(#14)
Deleted user
I agree with keeping the bankroll....how else can I afford my habit ??8O :x
 
Old
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Wed Oct 23, 2002, 05:05 PM
(#15)
Deleted user

Deleted
 
Old
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Wed Oct 23, 2002, 05:42 PM
(#16)
Deleted user
Mark "cautioned" everyone last year to "protect" their bankroll, or they might regret it. Voila....just before the BIG ONE, he added high bankroll buy in events as last minute qualifiers for the BIG ONE..no going thru multi levels to get there. Many were upset that they didn't "know" to save money. I suspect that there may be some use for the bankrolls before the BIG ONE II...(just my guess). What happens after that event..I dunno...and honestly, it doesn't matter to me, one way or the other. 8O



'Goddess
 
Old
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Wed Oct 23, 2002, 05:51 PM
(#17)
Deleted user
as its stated in the rules for big one 2 the additional seats in the big one 2 that will be played for in the run up to the event will only be A seats so no point having a big bankroll as by now alot of the students are all ready in..



before i joined i was honnoured to be sat at the same table as mark in a beta testing game as he went on about his ideas for school he mentioned a WSOP for the school i said no point in me joining as i would never get that much bankroll but as i have i would like to be able to do something with it.
 
Old
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Thu Oct 24, 2002, 02:10 AM
(#18)
Deleted user
think about this also, bankrolls were not only won in multi's, people have won in dream's team tourney, pokermatts heads up challenge, heads up matches, hazey's partners tourney, if bankrolls were to reset, it would be a while be4 any of these "special" events could be played again.
 
Old
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Thu Oct 24, 2002, 01:41 PM
(#19)
Deleted user
ironside wrote:
Quote:
as its stated in the rules for big one 2 the additional seats in the big one 2 that will be played for in the run up to the event will only be A seats so no point having a big bankroll as by now alot of the students are all ready in..
so, clearly, bankroll is meaningless to the majority of us. if only A seats are to be won through additional qualification processes, what are the bankrolls going to be used for then?

i also remember from a year ago when mark was intending to hold a WSOP at PSO with a 10K buy-in. what happened to that idea?

BlackAces stated:
Quote:
If we're levelling the playing field with respect to ratings, wouldn't it make sense to level it with respect to bankrolls as well?
exactly! does nobody else here see the logic behind that?

i currently have a 21k+ bankroll. what does that mean to me? absolutely nothing. a freeroll and a $200 buy-in tourney are the same to me. when you're on the bubble for being paid, does anybody here play differently to finish in the money? i don't and this is an important part of tournament poker that the school doesn't recognize. pso doesn't even provide a payout table for each tourney.

if bankrolls are reset, and add-ons and freerolls are removed with the addition of 'entry fees', we'll have a more realistic idea of how to maintain and build a bankroll. finishing 'in the money' will mean something and people will play differently (more realistically) towards the end of a tournament to try and do so. it would be a great lesson and we are supposedly here to learn. you can't argue with that.

also, the cumulative rankings table is just one table. i don't understand how there isn't enough room for it when there's enough room for the bankroll table which is still going to keep track of all our past tournament payouts.

aha12877, pokerschool could fund the payouts of 'special' events formed by students if necessary. it isn't real money we're dealing with.

so, nobody has provided any valid reason why bankrolls should be kept....especially if the cumulative rankings are reset. all i've heard was 'b/c i worked so hard to build it', but what exactly have you built and for what reason? what are you going to do with your bankroll?

pso hasn't given us any reasons why a large bankroll is necessary or needed. having the PSO WSOP 10k buy-in event would be a reason. or using 10k to receive a higher category in the Big One II would be another good reason why someone should build a bankroll.

pso staff, you're welcome to chime in on this discussion.

JCastle
 
Old
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Thu Oct 24, 2002, 02:01 PM
(#20)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCastle
also, the cumulative rankings table is just one table. i don't understand how there isn't enough room for it when there's enough room for the bankroll table which is still going to keep track of all our past tournament payouts.
From what I understand, it isn't the table they're erasing, it's all of the results since last October...we won't have any access to anything we've done from the time we joined up to December 31, 2002. They can keep track of bankroll without keeping track of past results...this is why add-ons, quiz bonuses, wins from special events, etc. can be left off the bankroll table. This is what I find so absurd.

PSO staff, if this is incorrect, please feel free to correct me.

Chris
 

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