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When do you fold?

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When do you fold? - Wed Oct 30, 2002, 12:11 AM
(#1)
Deleted user
A few problems from some real hands in low-limit online games. I'm doing this exercise because some of these hands gave me problems. I'll give everyone a chance to answer these and give you the hands, who won, and how I handled the situation. I got to see each of these hands at showdown whether it was because I called the final bet or an opponent did so.


1) Your in the cutoff when you're dealt KK. A poor player UTG limps, a middle position player limps, you raise, the button and the blinds fold.

The flop comes Q 7 3 rainbow (suits will not be important for this hand.

The UTG player checks, middle position bets, you raise, the UTG player calls two bets cold and the middle position player 3 bets. What do you do? If you take another card, by just calling, what do you do if you don't catch a king?


2) Your in late position and limp into a family pot with 22. We're going to see the flop 7 handed.

Flop comes JT2 (2 hearts)

There is a bet a raise and a reraise and a 3 bet before it gets to you. What is your strategy here on the flop? The turn brings a Kh. You know you're in trouble and there are two bets awaiting your call.


3) You were dealt AQ from late position in a relatively tight game and you bring it in for a raise. The BB calls and you see the flop heads up.

Flop brings Q 7 4 (suits are unimportant)

BB checks, you bet, BB calls

Turn brings a 7

BB checks, you bet, BB raises

What do you do? You have only been at the table with this player for about 10 hands and have no feel for him or her.


4) You're on the button and dealt KJ. Its folded to you and you decide to go for the steal. BB calls. Head's up on the way to the flop.

The flop brings a nice looking J 9 2 rainbow

You bet, the BB calls

Turn brings an innocuous-looking 5 when, all of the sudden, the BB comes out betting!! Uh-oh...what to do?

5) You see the flop 4 handed with AhAs. You have raised it to 3 bets before the flop and watch as 2 players call 2 bets cold.

Flop comes Jd 7s 4d

Everyone checks to you, you bet, 3 players call.

Turn brings a Ks.

Once again, it is checked to you when you bet and everyone else calls.

The River brings a dreaded 6d.

The first player bets and the second one folds. What do you do?


6) You are in the big blind and dealt J7. 4 players see the flop.

The flop comes 77A.

A raise and a reraise on the flop. How do you play it here????

Turn brings a J giving you 7s full. More action and you decide to bet out here. Would you do this? You get raised and a player trapped in the middle calls the bets cold and you decide to reraise and the original raiser caps it? What's going on and what should you do?


In some of these hands I had the best hand and in some I had a second best hand. I'll give you the answers later. I do realize that the correct answer in the given situation is not necessarily THE correct answer, but these are typical hands that are interesting nonetheless. Correct play in these situations can make a huge difference in profitability.

Diej
 
Old
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Wed Oct 30, 2002, 01:20 AM
(#2)
Deleted user
I'll tell you what I would do based on the very limited knowledge you gave me. Please be aware, however, that in a live ring game I would have a VERY good read on these players and my answer might changed based upon that.


Hand 1 - Assuming MP player is above average, I fold. Poor player UTG probably only has a queen, but MP player is showing strength and doesn't seem concerned with the possibility of an overpair or the early call. I would guess MP has 77. (This is an example, however, of what I am talking about when I say knowledge of a player. My read on MP player would be crucial here. I wouldn't be overly concerned if it was just me ant the UTG player, I'm probably going to the river if it's just the two of us. You don't really give us a feel for how MP plays though, so I have to assume strength, and faced with the fact that you raised preflop and raised flop, have to assume that he has flopped a set - however, if I had a read on the player, it could be possible that he has something like AQ and I might cap it (in fact, it's very possible this is what he had, if he had a good enough read on you to feel he could get you to lay down kings by reraising, he made the right play). That's why hands like these are hard to provide specific analysis on without a lot of detail.)

Hand 2 - in limit poker, regardless of whether it is a family pot, you shouldn't be seeing the flop with hands like 22, and especially should not call 3 bets even with a set flopped on that board. The implied odds just aren't there. There are flush draws, straight draws, and the small possibility of a larger set. With a smaller number of callers, maybe, you continue, but with the number of people already putting chips into the pot, you are either behind, or will be shortly. I fold this preflop, but if for some reason I saw this - I fold it when it comes to me.

Hand 3 - I check after the BB checks on the turn. However, you didn't and given the raise, I call this bet and the river bet (even though this is a probable loser, it is what I call an informational loss - it helps me to get a read on the player on which I can profit on later). I want to see how much he is willing to protect his blind. Did he call with A7 or did he call with 37? Is he bluffing on the scare card? Because you don't have a read on this player, you need to find this out right away and this is as good an opportunity as you will get.

Hand 4 - I reraise. I want to see just how strong he is. I'm thinking he hit a 5. Again, though, it depends on how much this person protects his blinds and what your read is. If he will play a hand like 95 off then I might just call him down. However, here I probably raise and see if he 3 bets me.

Hand 5 - I call. I'll pay to see his flush. Put enough money into the pot, odds warrant a call here.

Hand 6 - I slow it down. You're probably facing Ace 7 suited here, with the other person trapped in the middle probably having big ace. I wouldn't fold this hand, but I wouldn't be reraising with it either on the next betting round.

As you said, these are all very situational. If I was actually at the table I would have a much better feel on how to play these hands. The key to winning in low limit hold em though, is to get the best possible information you can on a player at the lowest possible price and then use that to your advantage. There are hands (such as the 22 hand) where most low limit players will be inclined to pay off to the river and lose everything they won in the previous 4 pots they pulled in because they failed to realize the implied possibility of their losing.

I haven't done analysis in a bit, so I might be a bit rusty (and Noodles will probably disagree with me, but he's a big bet guy anyway). I'd be interested in Dreams and Apryll's opinions. I would tend to think they would be more apt to reraise in all of the above situations then I am.

Hazy
 

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