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A test of poker skill

View Poll Results: Do you think a turbo or accelerated blind schedule tournament can improve basic skill
yes 11 36.67%
no 19 63.33%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

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A test of poker skill - Wed Feb 02, 2011, 08:47 AM
(#1)
aquadad's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 271
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How many think that any form of a turbo or accelerated blind schedule tournament can be a true test of basic poker skill?
 
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Wed Feb 02, 2011, 08:49 AM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,814
(Super-Moderator)
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bingo skills... yes

poker, not a chance.
 
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Wed Feb 02, 2011, 08:51 AM
(#3)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
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I think they reduce the chances of the best players winning, although they will still come out on top in the long term.

It's just another style to be learnt, but I hate them.
 
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Wed Feb 02, 2011, 08:55 AM
(#4)
Deleted user
...

Last edited by deleted_username; Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 12:02 AM..
 
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Wed Feb 02, 2011, 10:42 AM
(#5)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
I said YES

Look at PSO, it teaches you to be VERY patient, but it's not the only thing you should learn.
Playing turbo's with PSO skills will kill you. So you have to learn to play a bigger variety of cards, study your opponents, play position and be more aggressive without playing BINGO

So, YES it does help in the learning process
I wouldn't play Hyper Turbo's though.
 
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Wed Feb 02, 2011, 10:48 AM
(#6)
JT_Sooooted's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,407
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Much respect Sand but most of these players need to learn and practice patience. They just learn now that they need to shove ATC's. To become a good player one needs hands, hands, and more hands to learn from. They will NOT get this from the way the league is now. Any good poker player can and will adjust. However, we aren't going to bring along as many as we could have will deep stack and deep fields. One should not go into a turbo structure until they fully understand the game and the numbers themselves.

JT
 
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Wed Feb 02, 2011, 11:15 AM
(#7)
aquadad's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 271
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Don't get me wrong. Turbos and aggressive blind structures have their place and their own set of strategies. My question relates to the players that are trying to learn poker skills here on PSO and in the PSO skill league.
 
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Wed Feb 02, 2011, 11:22 AM
(#8)
Bill Curran's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,506
I am not sure whether to agree or disagree with this statement.

Let me clarify.

I think that the biggest drawback to a tourney with Big Blind intervals i.e. 20 mins or 30 mins or even more, is the length of time they take to play out.

Unless there is a possibility of winning a great deal of money at the end, there are not many players who would be willing to participate in a tourney that could take eight or nine hours, where the reward for winning is a few $ or less.

I think that shortening the Blind schedule but increasing the start stack, would tend to be a test of poker skills.

I am going to conduct a small experiment in the Home Games on Feb 6th, where the Blinds are three minutes but the starting stack is 5,000 chips. I would have liked to have had 10,000 chips start stack size, but PS only offer 5,000 max.

I am interested to see how this pans out, as unless someone decides to be a jackass and play Bingo, I think this format could be a lot of fun, as the tourney could be over in less than an hour and a half, but people won't feel that they need to shove just to stay even.

So I think my answer to the original question is... It depends.


 
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voted yes - Wed Feb 02, 2011, 11:32 AM
(#9)
gammin4fun's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 80
BronzeStar
I voted Yes and please let me explain MY way of thinking.....

I believe this format pushes you into a quick responce to bet or fold and the outcome is usually positive.
 
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Wed Feb 02, 2011, 12:07 PM
(#10)
john.duce's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 232
sandtrap is spot-on, get ur heads outta ur asses
 
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Wed Feb 02, 2011, 12:08 PM
(#11)
AlphaAero's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 389
BronzeStar
I think that your small depth of field will not make for a good experiment. three minute blinds and 50 runners does sound fun though. Enjoy your game!

x
 
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Wed Feb 02, 2011, 12:15 PM
(#12)
bahmani381's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 329
BronzeStar
i have to say yes. because i read somewhere that to be a top player one should learn all the games and play in all formats.
 
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Wed Feb 02, 2011, 12:25 PM
(#13)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT_Sooooted View Post
Much respect Sand but most of these players need to learn and practice patience. They just learn now that they need to shove ATC's. To become a good player one needs hands, hands, and more hands to learn from. They will NOT get this from the way the league is now. Any good poker player can and will adjust. However, we aren't going to bring along as many as we could have will deep stack and deep fields. One should not go into a turbo structure until they fully understand the game and the numbers themselves.

JT
That's what I was saying. Here at PSO, you learn about patience, you're suppose to learn not to play every single hand....LOL. What I was saying, is that once you've achieve the patience part, you need to move up. When learning about position, which hands to play and at what time, vs which opponent, than you're ready for turbo.

So my answer was YES, it is a true test
And yes it's not for about 90% of PSO players

 
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Wed Feb 02, 2011, 02:19 PM
(#14)
aquadad's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 271
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Even with just this few responses it's easy to see that this was too broad of a question. everyone has made good points.

So, I can see that turbos/accelerated blind tourneys can be used to excel beyond basic skill level. But, and this is what I originally meant by the quesion, should it be used to teach basic skills.
 
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Wed Feb 02, 2011, 02:28 PM
(#15)
JT_Sooooted's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquadad View Post
Even with just this few responses it's easy to see that this was too broad of a question. everyone has made good points.

So, I can see that turbos/accelerated blind tourneys can be used to excel beyond basic skill level. But, and this is what I originally meant by the quesion, should it be used to teach basic skills.
No, one would venture out into the turbo world once they feel comfortable with their game that was learned at the PSO.

JT
 
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Wed Feb 02, 2011, 02:56 PM
(#16)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
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Hyper-turbos are super fun though.
 
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Wed Feb 02, 2011, 03:04 PM
(#17)
blindmice123's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquadad View Post
Even with just this few responses it's easy to see that this was too broad of a question. everyone has made good points.

So, I can see that turbos/accelerated blind tourneys can be used to excel beyond basic skill level. But, and this is what I originally meant by the quesion, should it be used to teach basic skills.
i'm thinking no, not to teach basic skills - but yes to enhance basic skills, sharpen observation skills, and advanced play.

 
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Wed Feb 02, 2011, 07:15 PM
(#18)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquadad View Post
So, I can see that turbos/accelerated blind tourneys can be used to excel beyond basic skill level. But, and this is what I originally meant by the quesion, should it be used to teach basic skills.
I voted yes, and it's not even close tbh. It's true you can't nit it up and expect to have success in turbos. I guess if you want a better answer relating to this quote, we should start by defining what you believe are the "basic" mtt skills, then address each in terms of a turbo structure.

IDK what skills you think are basic, but I think we can start with patience I think everyone would agree fits in that category. Do turbos teach patience? The consensus in this thread so far was "no" I believe, but I would offer a different perspective. Patience is certainly an integral part of good MTT strategy, but so are things like chip accumulation (when you don't have a "real" hand), adjusting to table dynamics, understanding push/fold ranges, etc. Turbos don't allow much time to sit back and wait, they force you to open up your game or be blinded off quickly. Patience is the first thing newbs need to learn because they play too many hands and go too far with them naturally... but you can't be a successful tournament player sitting on your thumbs waiting for group 1 hands, so I believe that part in parcel with learning the patience of waiting is also learning when not to wait, how to recognize profitable opportunities that don't necessarily relate to a group 1 holdings and attack them.

If you've learned the patience of waiting for hands, but have not learned when not to sit back, then playing turbos will definitely put you out of your comfort zone because you will have woefully poor results if you don't adjust. But, when you are learning poker, being forced out of your comfort zone is a good thing. Closest to the fire changes the fastest.

Dave
 
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Wed Feb 02, 2011, 07:34 PM
(#19)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,814
(Super-Moderator)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
bingo skills... yes

poker, not a chance.
Although, I will say that I've done pretty good in the dime mtt turbos I've played (+ROI).

The one good thing for them is that they will teach you how to chip-up, which is needed in any mtt.
 
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Wed Feb 02, 2011, 08:24 PM
(#20)
spazlar's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 73
BronzeStar
I find in turbos you need to make moves a bit earlier then you would in a normal blind acceleration.

pick some spots to 3bet light, have some good patience and get the chips in when you have the best hand. you def learn a few tatcics to bring to the normal mtt game from the turbos, better patience to put some new moves out.

good poll

spaz gl all.
 

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