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What am I missing?

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What am I missing? - Sun Feb 13, 2011, 04:11 PM
(#1)
HamishTPB's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 2
First of all, Hello All - I have been lurking for a little while and learning what I can from you

I am in my second month here and I am aware that I still make plenty of stupid mistakes but when I am trying my best to follow the PSO lessons I just don't see how to get past a certain point in the Skill League Freerolls.

If you follow the advice to not play early to avoid the wildly random players and the blinds are too low to be worth taking then that leaves you with most of your stack, apparently still avoiding the ones that have been lucky so far when you do have a good hand later - except they have much bigger stacks and can last longer without really doing anything now or massively outbet you with nothing hands.

The only thing I can think of is to work on my betting but none of the lessons really seems to help me beyond starting bets and calling odds. If I have missed a lesson or lessons (or just plain forgotten) then please point me back to the appropriate one(s).

The only thing I know for sure is to bet the same opening amount consistently (4xBB seems a fairly common consensus) but what do I do to scare off someone without risking my stack when I am wrong? I have played around with various percentages of the pot, trying to "show" certain pot odds to scare people off who are paying attention to them and avoiding limping or checking.

I am sure I am mis-remembering play but it seems to me that a lot of players who make it further than me have a mix of wild play (AI pre-flop or betting big or calling with bad hands with stack advantage) and tight play but if that was the case then they would not be surviving many tourneys to get further according to the "poker is a game of skill" theory (which makes sense to me) but I feel I am missing huge chunks of knowledge.

Playing consistently tight and aggressive (when I get it right) has got me so far but I eventually seem to end up beaten by not having the chips to stand up to the final field or getting knocked out by the fast-growing blinds and antes. There must be a middle ground between random play and where I find myself but I just can't find it - any help would be appreciated. I feel like I have a great opportunity here and I do enjoy the game, win or lose, when I feel I am able to play comfortably.

Hamish ThePolarBear
 
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Sun Feb 13, 2011, 05:08 PM
(#2)
Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
BronzeStar
Welcome to the site.

Like you, I too find it difficult getting the proper balance between loose, tight, super-tight, and overly aggressive. Best I can suggest is to follow your gut and do what feels correct. Start out playing only group one and two hands for the first few rounds, then expand as you go deeper. How many is "a few?" Try three or four rounds, then adjust up or down one until you feel comfortable.

Poker is a game of adjustments. There is no firm rule. You cannot say "If I have X, it wins." Just read the numberous threads about bad beats and you'll learn that. Best suggestion is to play the higher percentage hands.

As to being blinded out of a game, there isn't a player here who hasn't experienced that feeling at some point. Those with rotten luck, like me, can go several hundred deals without a playable hand. And poker is a game where luck plays a part.
 
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Sun Feb 13, 2011, 06:44 PM
(#3)
Eveningsun08's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 11
BronzeStar
Hello...I am new to the poker world all together! I have made to be an active player...but every time I go to play for points for my month...I go to the $1.10 or any one of them that will give me points.

I get on these tables and I hate it!!! I know everyone calls them "shove monkeys" but allot of times it feels like they know what the flop is and bet so carzy like and the bets make no sense most times! Like just now...I was playing and I had Pocket AAs and so someone from Russia gets two fricking Qs after I had raised All IN...I still lost.




Eveningsun08
 
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Mon Feb 14, 2011, 05:16 AM
(#4)
wwwMBeecouk's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 690
BronzeStar
Just check my stats for the month. So far my worst ever and yet I made a final table for the second time in two months. I have been knocked out early several times whilst holding AAA and KKK.

Yes peeps play 'mediocre' starting hands; but with five more cards to come along anything can happen. It IS frustrating to have the best pre flop hand but lose on the table. But that is all it is - the best pre flop hand. It is also frustrating to see a hand develop into a monster on the flop or turn only to be out-gunned on the river.

Slowly but surely trying to read what the other player may have will help in not getting caught out so much but it is an inevitable part of poker that one monster can be eaten by another.

You are not alone. It has been said before and I dare say it will be said again - there are loose aggressive types throughout the poker tables no matter where you go. You pay your money, as it were, and take your choice. Crazy Ivans are fabulous to play against. They understand aggression and will only start folding to you once you have crushed their nuts a couple of times. THEN you have their respect. Until that time you are just cannon fodder to them.

Stick with Tight Aggressive in the early stages of a tournament BUT Remember:

*Start Tight Aggressive

*Review your hand and its possibilities with each new card

*Review your Opponent's hand and its possibilities with each new card. If you think someone would have to have, say, 9 6 to beat your 8 high straight, then most often that is exactly what the opponent is holding. It does not even matter that you are sitting on three 10s; the river can be treacherous and three Jacks pop up. Learn to FOLD to WIN (probably the most difficult part of the game).

*Ask yourself why is the opponent shoving all the time (if out and out shoving every hand they do not last that long regardless of how big a stack they have when you meet them. I have watched (and helped) knock this type out of tournaments. They have say 140k chips only to lose the lot over three hands). If they shove in the hope of getting a big enough stack to sit out but still be in the money, or come back later then it is what it is and nothing to be concerned about.

*CHANGE YOUR GAME as the tournament progresses and each hand develops. Sometimes you cannot wait for those monsters. Play in position and loosen up a bit - go out in a blaze of glory as it were. Poker is not without its risks. When you defend your blind and hit your gutshot on the River - so what if the opponent was playing AQs and flopped an Ace. Let him/her get tetchy. That is all part of Poker.

There are 52 cards in a pack and they all have their uses.

If we went into a hand with a pre flop nut hand and win every time poker would be the most boring of games because we would never see a flop.

Remember above all:

The pre flop nuts will often be crushed by the River Boulders!

MB

Last edited by wwwMBeecouk; Mon Feb 14, 2011 at 05:29 AM..
 
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Mon Feb 14, 2011, 05:25 AM
(#5)
wwwMBeecouk's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 690
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cairn Destop View Post
snip
Poker is a game of adjustments. There is no firm rule. You cannot say "If I have X, it wins." Just read the numberous threads about bad beats and you'll learn that. Best suggestion is to play the higher percentage hands.
+1

Quote:
As to being blinded out of a game, there isn't a player here who hasn't experienced that feeling at some point. ...
snip...

And poker is a game where luck plays a part.
+1

Only yesterday as it happens; but at least I made positive points.


MB
 
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Mon Feb 14, 2011, 05:50 AM
(#6)
wwwMBeecouk's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 690
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by HamishTPB View Post
snip

If you follow the advice to not play early to avoid the wildly random players and the blinds are too low to be worth taking t..snip
...except they have much bigger stacks and can last longer without really doing anything now or massively outbet you with nothing hands.

The only thing I can think of is to work on my betting

snip
Welcome. If you are new to the league and poker then this is the place to EXPERIMENT. Do not be afraid to get knocked out early. As you learn more (and there is masses and masses out there about this wonderful game) you will be able to try things out in the league; then take that knowledge and put it to good use in other games.

Re betting. In order to bet you can use the standard kind like 2/3 of the pot but you also really need to get a read on your opponent too. Will that opponent almost ALWAYS fold when you raise. Will that opponent almost ALWAYS fold when you re raise? Do you need to bet 2/3 at every stage to increase the pressure or will one bet do it? etc.

IF you have a strong hand and you decide to enter the pot you have to be prepared to either go all the way to possible chip death or fold if you think you are actually beaten. With the shovemonkeys or Bingo Betty Brigade it is really a matter of 's/he is sooo loose dysentry could take lessons and I have a cat one hand and therefore it is to the death!' in the knowledge that pre flop at least you have the best chance of taking the hand. If you are not totally committed then fold and let someone else take that chance and also the reward of those chips. Your time will come.

MB
 
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Positive Points - Mon Feb 14, 2011, 08:57 AM
(#7)
Eveningsun08's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 11
BronzeStar
Well I hate to admit this but out of this month I have played 39 games and I wish for positive points...21 of them are losses, so that leaves 18 with positive points.

I try to play 1 game a day that is in the points, but if I lose then I feel like I have to play another game to make up for the last bomb. Then there is another bomb, and it snowballs. example the 12th I played 5 games and 3 were good, but the day before I tried and I had 4 games 4 losses. I just get so frustrated.

I know that I am supposed to be tight early and after the break then there is the clock to use. so basically I am exing myself out in the ranking...good points get overriden by the other finishes.

Eveningsun08
 
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Mon Feb 14, 2011, 10:51 AM
(#8)
!!!111Dan's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by HamishTPB View Post
First of all, Hello All - I have been lurking for a little while and learning what I can from you

I am in my second month here and I am aware that I still make plenty of stupid mistakes but when I am trying my best to follow the PSO lessons I just don't see how to get past a certain point in the Skill League Freerolls.

If you follow the advice to not play early to avoid the wildly random players and the blinds are too low to be worth taking then that leaves you with most of your stack, apparently still avoiding the ones that have been lucky so far when you do have a good hand later - except they have much bigger stacks and can last longer without really doing anything now or massively outbet you with nothing hands.

The only thing I can think of is to work on my betting but none of the lessons really seems to help me beyond starting bets and calling odds. If I have missed a lesson or lessons (or just plain forgotten) then please point me back to the appropriate one(s).

The only thing I know for sure is to bet the same opening amount consistently (4xBB seems a fairly common consensus) but what do I do to scare off someone without risking my stack when I am wrong? I have played around with various percentages of the pot, trying to "show" certain pot odds to scare people off who are paying attention to them and avoiding limping or checking.......
Hamish ThePolarBear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eveningsun08 View Post
Hello...I am new to the poker world all together! I have made to be an active player...but every time I go to play for points for my month...I go to the $1.10 or any one of them that will give me points......
Eveningsun08
Hello Hamish and Eveningsun, welcome to the pso and the forum!
Most of us feel your frustrations when we begin playing here. The pso is a uniquely structured league with consequences for early exits so we all try to play somewhat safe, only to be undercut by maniacal play at times. The key is to limit these.
I encourage you both to take your time as you learn the league and poker in general, adjust your play to the structure here, and seek as much info as you can.
I will be sending you a pm this week.
Best o' luck,
Dan
 
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Mon Feb 14, 2011, 12:54 PM
(#9)
bahmani381's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 329
BronzeStar
take notes
 
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Tue Feb 15, 2011, 07:12 AM
(#10)
wwwMBeecouk's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 690
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eveningsun08 View Post
snip..
... so that leaves 18 with positive points.

I try to play 1 game a day that is in the points, but if I lose then I feel like I have to play another game to make up for the last bomb. snip

I know that I am supposed to be tight early and after the break then there is the clock to use. snip

Eveningsun08
You have some good positive finishes there I note. Concentrate on those positives - you know you are made of the right stuff.

Play 1 a day or more: what matters is you are learning bit by bit to take the downside as well as the up.

Play as tight as a Crab's Rs (and that is watertight) early: your trips will still get hit by a stronger hand. That is poker.

As for using the clock AFTER the break. What about using it before the break too? I am a full on clock user after the break but I will also use all of my available clock time every time someone goes all in before I have my turn. I will occasionally use the clock pre break too depending on how slowly peeps are getting knocked out. The faster they get knocked out the less I need to use the clock

Poker is not just about playing cards

MB
 
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Games - Tue Feb 15, 2011, 05:16 PM
(#11)
Eveningsun08's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 11
BronzeStar
Hi there everyone!

Wow I first want to thank you guys for your suggestions...I played two games today and the one at 10am I got: 210 out of 1131 which gave me 12.01. Then I just finished the 3pm and I got: 191 out of 1368...so quess what I don't really want to press it. I go and play 2 more tomorrow and then see if I want to up it more.

But those two games I got the hand about 4-5 total between the two!...I guess ya call that squeeking!!!!! LOL AND So SLOW that I was afraid I'd fall asleep! HA HA well not totally true.

Thanks again!
Eveningsun08
 
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Games - Tue Feb 15, 2011, 05:18 PM
(#12)
Eveningsun08's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 11
BronzeStar
Actually I had problems breathing on some hands...forgot to breathe...such a dummy! Ha Ha

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eveningsun08 View Post
Hi there everyone!

Wow I first want to thank you guys for your suggestions...I played two games today and the one at 10am I got: 210 out of 1131 which gave me 12.01. Then I just finished the 3pm and I got: 191 out of 1368...so quess what I don't really want to press it. I go and play 2 more tomorrow and then see if I want to up it more.

But those two games I got the hand about 4-5 total between the two!...I guess ya call that squeeking!!!!! LOL AND So SLOW that I was afraid I'd fall asleep! HA HA well not totally true.

Thanks again!
Eveningsun08
 
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Title?? - Tue Feb 15, 2011, 11:35 PM
(#13)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,286
I don't get the title of your thread, but you don't seem to be missing much. Well done, keep up the good work.

Good luck!!
 
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Wed Feb 16, 2011, 03:47 PM
(#14)
HamishTPB's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 2
Thank you all for your replies and it is nice to know I am apparently not missing much other than experience.

I have had a couple of better PSO Skill Tourneys this week with only one really silly mistake that I can recall. Part of the better play has come from self-examination and a lot from the advice given here in the forum and from some personal messages.

I have a lot on my plate at the moment with business and health so I may be slow to reply but I am reading and appreciating all the information given
 

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