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re: Clarifications, please, on Fold Equity

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re: Clarifications, please, on Fold Equity - Wed Feb 16, 2011, 10:34 PM
(#1)
tc1228's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 29
BronzeStar
Hi, Dave;

Great stuff! I have JUST learned of the availability of these live classes - 3 have been available since then, and I have attended 2, thus far! I'll be making effort to attend as many as I can 'till I can comfortably quit my daytime job!

My thanks to the truck-driving buddy (I'll remember his tag later) who told me of this!

and.. Dave.. I hope 1) they let you out often enough for air!.. and they really, really ought to consider paying you for your services! :-P (I don't konw what that one means, and it's the first time I have used it, but I hope it catches the spirit... I'm the old-school... <smile> .. kind of guy...

Soo.. Fold Equity (Can we call it FE, from now on, please?)... and pardon my poor paraphrasing here.. was an interesting.. and ENTIRELY NEW concept for me... I promptly lost money in real live (albeit) free - for FPP points) because I was soo discombobulated about the concept....

Fold Equity is the . "approach".. or framework... around which you can decide whether it is, or that it is.. worthwhile, and sensible to economically PUSH people off of their hands...

I joined 3 to 6 minutes into the show (first time.. .. didn't know what to do/ how to do it.. )

Is FE, then, to be applied/used.. as a tool to decide to go all in Pre-Flop, only? Is it the intent that it be used - position-wise - as early as possible after the bb?

In tourneys.. I kept thinking..

1) What.. what would Dave have me understand given that I like my hand.. AND I want to push them out?.. .if it's too early, and I don't "know" the other player, then there's is no sense in trying to make an assesment

2) in other situations, I was.. let's say.. 4 to 6 players after the bb, and, in some instances, everyone had played/bet one bb worth. IS FE still an option there - while still within only.. uhmm.... 10 rounds from the start of the tourney (i.e,.. little "awareness" of the players' styles)

Finally... In your televised game.. or live - re-cast for our benefit - game (the one you used as an example in our lesson), you typically ONLY had one player to contend with.... I am seeing, too often.. 2 to 4+ other players...

Which takes me to my final .. question.. Will I find, as I migrate to more expensive games, that the "nonsense" - crap-hands-type players.. won't be there for me to contend with? i.e., right now I have been playing prevelantly $0.50 and JUST started $1.00 45 and 90-player tourneys. When I get to .. $4.00 games.. using FE will make more "sense", cuz the guy(s) playing K5 suited - aren't sitting there - as often?

Thanks, Dave.. !

Josh
TC1228
 
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Thu Feb 17, 2011, 01:08 PM
(#2)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,479
(Head Trainer)
Hi Josh,

Glad you're finding the classes valuable!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tc1228 View Post
Is FE, then, to be applied/used.. as a tool to decide to go all in Pre-Flop, only? Is it the intent that it be used - position-wise - as early as possible after the bb?
No, FE considerations come into play on each betting decision, be it preflop or post. When you are taking an aggressive action (betting or raising) there is usually (mostly but not always) some non-zero chance your opponent(s) will fold.

Quote:
1) What.. what would Dave have me understand given that I like my hand.. AND I want to push them out?.. .if it's too early, and I don't "know" the other player, then there's is no sense in trying to make an assesment
FE isn't about "wanting" to push them out. It's about the assessment that they might fold to action. If there's no info on the villain you can make some general assessment, but there's usually SOME info at your disposal even vs. unknowns.

Quote:
2) in other situations, I was.. let's say.. 4 to 6 players after the bb, and, in some instances, everyone had played/bet one bb worth. IS FE still an option there - while still within only.. uhmm.... 10 rounds from the start of the tourney (i.e,.. little "awareness" of the players' styles)
Sure it's a factor. Some players limp/fold regularly, and some tend to call for any reasonable price once they limp in. Early in mtt's when the table appears to be starting out loose, I generally assume my fold equity is fairly small until I learn through observation who the folders are.

Quote:
Finally... In your televised game.. or live - re-cast for our benefit - game (the one you used as an example in our lesson), you typically ONLY had one player to contend with.... I am seeing, too often.. 2 to 4+ other players...Which takes me to my final .. question.. Will I find, as I migrate to more expensive games, that the "nonsense" - crap-hands-type players.. won't be there for me to contend with? i.e., right now I have been playing prevelantly $0.50 and JUST started $1.00 45 and 90-player tourneys. When I get to .. $4.00 games.. using FE will make more "sense", cuz the guy(s) playing K5 suited - aren't sitting there - as often?
It all depends. There are bad players at all levels. You will see plenty of the K5s types in $4 games.

Dave
 
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Thanks for reply to "Clarifications" request - Thu Feb 17, 2011, 01:49 PM
(#3)
tc1228's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 29
BronzeStar
Hi, Dave;

Thank you for your prompt response.

I am (slowly) beginning to understand your distinction about the "assesment" aspect of FE.

I suspect I'll spend time thinking about it, and the next time you provide the class, I may have some additional questions/reflections about those experiences as I slowly try to apply it.

I have learned that at the rate I'm going, it'll take forever to "earn" a book via FPP's. I'll just have to go out and buy (F)Lynch, et al's book that you had mentioned.

Finally, I have tightened up. I am only playing 23 to 30 % of my hands. My ADD kicks in during idle time, so I play solitaire.

I have tried playing multiple games, but I find I don't manage too well (yet?!?) when hands at both tables need to be addressed at the same moment (and I am by NO MEANS a slow player - I'd say I make my decisions almost too unusually fast (thus failing to sometimes spot the lurking boats and straights! Shame on me!)

Once more, thank you!

Josh
tc1228
 

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