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What would you do pre-flop? AA busted!!!

 
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What would you do pre-flop? AA busted!!! - Sun Feb 20, 2011, 02:25 PM
(#1)
tjpete1389's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 14
BronzeStar
In the first hand of today's 1300 PSO tourny I had the benefit of getting AA. When I first startted playing poker back in November and was learning the game, I would have bet 4 BB with 1BB per limper (per the training), but I found over time that I was plalying too tight-aggressive and when I did get a premium hand and would bet 4BB, I would rarely get any action and would only get the blinds. Well, you may stick around for a while, but eventually you get blinded out and are usually short stacked the whole way.

So over time, I started to open up my range of cards and backed off to 2-3 BB on pre-flops. Also, I would rarely just call but started to do so more with hands like KQ, QJ, AT, etc. I have also read all the discussions of donks early on and didn't want to over commit my hand, but also didn't want to be a shove monkey right off the bat in he first hand and get called by a 72 that draws out on me.

Well, I ended up all in anyway. After my AA got beat on the River with a straight, I commented how I hate AA early on and the reply was that I should not have slow played the AA. I replied that I raised at ever opportunity. The reply was that the I only raised $60 (3BB) pre-flop. What is the right play in this situation? I wanted to get some action and get paid off more than just $30 in blinds, but didn't want to over-commit (which I did anyway) and lose it all after the first hand (which I did anyway). What do you do?

Thanks for your thoughts?

PokerStars Game #57988507577: Tournament #360452868, Freeroll Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2011/02/20 13:00:04 ET
Table '360452868 20' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: notslowluke1 (1500 in chips)
Seat 2: oldskool 92 (1500 in chips)
Seat 3: craftycarrot (1500 in chips)
Seat 4: bwt01 (1500 in chips)
Seat 5: myoho01 (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: tjpete1389 (1500 in chips)
Seat 7: ClintonLee7 (1500 in chips)
Seat 8: AQsuited33 (1500 in chips)
Seat 9: granjenny7 (1500 in chips) is sitting out
oldskool 92: posts small blind 10
craftycarrot: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to tjpete1389 [Ad Ah]
bwt01: folds
myoho01: folds
tjpete1389: raises 40 to 60
ClintonLee7: calls 60
AQsuited33: folds
granjenny7: folds
notslowluke1: folds
oldskool 92: calls 50
craftycarrot: folds
*** FLOP *** [3c Tc 8d]
oldskool 92: checks
tjpete1389: bets 100
ClintonLee7: calls 100
oldskool 92: calls 100
*** TURN *** [3c Tc 8d] [Jd]
oldskool 92: checks
tjpete1389: bets 120
ClintonLee7: calls 120
oldskool 92: calls 120
*** RIVER *** [3c Tc 8d Jd] [9h]
oldskool 92: bets 440
tjpete1389: raises 780 to 1220 and is all-in
ClintonLee7: folds
oldskool 92: calls 780 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
tjpete1389: shows [Ad Ah] (a pair of Aces)
oldskool 92: shows [7c Qc] (a straight, Eight to Queen)
oldskool 92 collected 3300 from pot
tjpete1389 finished the tournament in 1243rd place
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3300 | Rake 0
Board [3c Tc 8d Jd 9h]
Seat 1: notslowluke1 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: oldskool 92 (small blind) showed [7c Qc] and won (3300) with a straight, Eight to Queen
Seat 3: craftycarrot (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: bwt01 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: myoho01 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: tjpete1389 showed [Ad Ah] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 7: ClintonLee7 folded on the River
Seat 8: AQsuited33 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: granjenny7 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
 
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Sun Feb 20, 2011, 03:18 PM
(#2)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Pre-flop standard raise is OK. Sometimes I open 4x+1 in the first two rounds but nothing wrong with 3x.

On the flop bet more than 1/2 the pot. I'd suggest 150 -180.

On the turn betting 120 into 500 is practically useless. If you are going to bet make it 350 - 450 to show you are serious.

On the river snap fold with 4 to a strait on the board this early.

So you slow-played the hand after the flop and got into trouble.
 
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Sun Feb 20, 2011, 04:05 PM
(#3)
tjpete1389's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 14
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrumpinJoe View Post
Pre-flop standard raise is OK. Sometimes I open 4x+1 in the first two rounds but nothing wrong with 3x.

On the flop bet more than 1/2 the pot. I'd suggest 150 -180.

On the turn betting 120 into 500 is practically useless. If you are going to bet make it 350 - 450 to show you are serious.

On the river snap fold with 4 to a strait on the board this early.

So you slow-played the hand after the flop and got into trouble.

Thank you! Didn't realize I was slow playing. I was trying to keep relatively consistent with the bet size, adding a little each time. Didn't factor in the size of the bet in relation to the size of the pot. I guess I was giving good pot odds for a straight draw. Knew I should have folded on the River, but couldn't stop myself.
 
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Sun Feb 20, 2011, 06:29 PM
(#4)
DLeviathan's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 501
BronzeStar
Pre-flop is fine.

When you get multiple callers with AA, you are in danger. With a flush draw and straight draw possible on the flop you should bet the size of the pot to lay only 2-1 odds on a call. You might even overbet the pot to lay worse odds than that.

As played, with 3 opponents still in the pot and a turn card that makes two possible flush draws and completes a straight for a 97, I would not bet. If you want to bet, it has to be at least 1/2 the size of the pot to give draws bad odds.

When the river puts 4 consecutive cards on board you can only beat a bluff or a bad mistake. If you have a strong read that its a bluff, then call. Raising was a bad mistake. Worse hands fold. Better hands send you to the rail.

Last edited by DLeviathan; Sun Feb 20, 2011 at 06:31 PM..
 
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Mon Feb 21, 2011, 05:13 PM
(#5)
tjpete1389's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 14
BronzeStar
Thanks to both for your insights. I have adjusted my post-flop bets and am keeping pot size more in mind to make the pot odds less advantageous for a call. Have had some up and downs, but more ups. It has really helped me wityh my NL cash games $.01/.02. Have struggled a bit with the PSO, as I either make the money or go out a little earlier. Need more ice in your veins sometimes to make those bigger post flop raises. Either way, it makes the game more interesting and enjoyable. Thanks again.
 
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Tue Feb 22, 2011, 08:06 AM
(#6)
antlovesang1's Avatar
Since: May 2010
Posts: 931
IMO maybe a 4/5 bb raise pre flop as per the fact as you say its the 1st hand of pso
for him to say you were slow playing yet calling a pre flop raise then calling a solid flop bet with absolutely nothing and ''knowing they need runner runner to survive'' i say that loosely as i dont know there rank i could assume it aint great calling your pre flop/flop bets

sometimes raising and taking the blinds isnt a bad thing in this case you would still be sat in the tournament

some may diasagree with me here but AA 1st hand pso should be 7 BB and if he calls all in on the flop
 
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Wed Feb 23, 2011, 04:28 PM
(#7)
shirshot's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 665
If you only win the blinds thats better than losing it all!
At the start of the tourney betting 60 with everybody having 1500 in their stacks is just asking for callers. Tourney full of chasers.
 

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