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poker skill - Thu Feb 24, 2011, 03:19 PM
(#1)
ronh1967's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 376
how come this league is called a skill league when its not based on skill?
 
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Thu Feb 24, 2011, 03:21 PM
(#2)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
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cause they had to think of some sort of name
 
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Thu Feb 24, 2011, 03:37 PM
(#3)
sharkatack89's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronh1967 View Post
how come this league is called a skill league when its not based on skill?
They tried "Survivor League", but, ran into lawsuits. So, this is what was left. Sorry. -shark
 
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Thu Feb 24, 2011, 04:29 PM
(#4)
VERDUGO77's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronh1967 View Post
how come this league is called a skill league when its not based on skill?
where is the lack of skill? are you saying the players consistently in the money every month or the top one hundred are not exercising skill?
 
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Thu Feb 24, 2011, 06:19 PM
(#5)
ronh1967's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 376
if you played in these tournaments you would know where the lack off skill is!
 
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Thu Feb 24, 2011, 07:58 PM
(#6)
ssuglia's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VERDUGO77 View Post
where is the lack of skill? are you saying the players consistently in the money every month or the top one hundred are not exercising skill?
He's looking for players as skilled as he is...

at whatever it is he's skilled at...

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 
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Thu Feb 24, 2011, 09:02 PM
(#7)
wherethesoda's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 39
it takes skill to be at the top of the leaderboard. it doesnt mean u have to win tourneys, just means u have to be consistently outlasting the majority of the field
 
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Thu Feb 24, 2011, 09:54 PM
(#8)
1_ STR8RZR's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 76
BronzeStar
Keyword: consistent
 
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Thu Feb 24, 2011, 10:05 PM
(#9)
Ace King 61's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronh1967 View Post
how come this league is called a skill league when its not based on skill?
That's funny!

You have been a member since June 2010 and have only played 13 games total and have only 1 ITM of those 13. It's pretty obvious that you lack the skill to be competitive in this SKILL League. Maybe you should try harder.

The funny part you ask? Is that this league pays out all that money each month to players with no skill....which is your assumption.
 
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. - Thu Feb 24, 2011, 10:11 PM
(#10)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,286
There is skill involved - you have to figure out how to beat the game. In a nutshell, all the different types of tourneys test your ability to adapt to the speed of the game, the level of the blinds, your stack vs. your opponents (either "skill" players or donks). Until you learn this lesson, it's difficult to be a successful poker player.

So yes, this is a "skill" league, you just haven't developed the right skills to beat this particular format.

Good luck!!
 
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Thu Feb 24, 2011, 10:19 PM
(#11)
Faery Tats's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronh1967 View Post
how come this league is called a skill league when its not based on skill?
You need to find your place within the league. Either you're going to learn the skills to become a consistent player within the league, which means playing up against skilled players, donks, shove monkeys and the like. OR you are going to make excuses that it isn't a skill league because you can't adapt to the style of play involved.

The most important skill to learn in this league though is PATIENCE. Without that you're not going to get to far.

This is just my humble opinion, your mileage may vary.

Rosie
 
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Thu Feb 24, 2011, 11:03 PM
(#12)
NoNeedBackUp's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 150
BronzeStar
it's sad to see one relying on luck to make things to be turned around in their favor.

i've been there but im learning to live through with it.

my MTT ITM % is over 11% and recently its 16% so i think im getting used to it.
 
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Fri Feb 25, 2011, 01:13 AM
(#13)
VERDUGO77's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronh1967 View Post
if you played in these tournaments you would know where the lack off skill is!
I do play these tourney's and sometimes I see the lack of skil and and try to take advantage and some times I see excellent skill and avoid the trap and sometimes Im clueless and either get out the way or i make the wrong move...being in the top 100 Id say im exercising a bit more skill this month...but judging by your numbers Id say youre the one with the lack of skill at reading other players which if this is the case Id say tighten your game up and take it a bit more serious...read the players at your tables and shoot for that 1500 at the end of the month and as always...see you at the tables and good luck sir.

 
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Fri Feb 25, 2011, 07:10 AM
(#14)
wiseguyjim's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 208
BronzeStar
I think you guys need to give the OP some kind of break here. There isn't alot of skill in these tourneys. There are basically a few hundred people who have enough common sense to have figured out the point system and the best ways to get those points. Not alot of difference in play style in nearly all the top 200 players in this league, including myself.
The difference, or "skill", is in the variance factor. How often are your monsters holding up. For myself, I have placed in the money in 13 out of 56 tourneys for a percentage of about 23%. Better than some and worse than others. Now, Dreams, the person currently in first place has placed in 22 out of 49 tourneys for an amazing 45%!! Is there a big difference in the play style between Dreams and the rest of the top 100. Maybe, I haven't been shadowing Dreams but good odds say they play the same style as Cote, Byron, Yiannis, Starlanna, Razzys, Datzang, myself, and just about anybody else in the top 1% of the league I have had a chance to watch play this month. The difference is the variance factor. That is what decides where people end up. At least the ones that know the system. This month I have been on a rollercaoster. Variance has been nasty to me the last week or so. Variance has to be going fantastic for Dreams. We all face the same shove monkeys and ATC players. Their play styles are as consistant as the play of the top 1%. The question is whether variance is going to bite you or kiss you. Best of luck to all the last couple days. Should be interesting.
 
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Fri Feb 25, 2011, 08:03 AM
(#15)
femson2000's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by wherethesoda View Post
it takes skill to be at the top of the leaderboard. it doesnt mean u have to win tourneys, just means u have to be consistently outlasting the majority of the field

It takes a BUTT OF STEEL immune to hemorrhoids, and robotic eyes to stay on top of the leaderboard!

Last edited by femson2000; Fri Feb 25, 2011 at 08:05 AM.. Reason: Corrected BUTT OF STEAL to STEEL
 
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?? - Fri Feb 25, 2011, 09:17 AM
(#16)
monkeyskunk4's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,818
Loose players,maniacs, and shuvvers at all buy in levels-- the skill is identifying them- and chipping up-- you would rather be at a table with all supertite players-and at best min cash- being forced to shuvv lite yourself or blind out?? ?? your logic fails-- gl-- monk..
 
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Fri Feb 25, 2011, 12:09 PM
(#17)
!!!111Dan's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,290
First Ron, welcome to the forum.
You have to explain your question a little better. This is just too generic to see where you're having trouble at.
Lot's of good info in this thread, and Monk is spot on. If you're not noting players (in the pso and elsewhere) then you're not taking full advantage of the tools given. You have to identify the types of players you're against and use that info to play against them. Being patient is key.
Best o' luck!
 
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Fri Feb 25, 2011, 12:55 PM
(#18)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
I think the question was rhetorical Dan, seems like he wants to complain about the caliber of play in the skill league. The level of play, in general, is abysmal. Not sure why this is a surprise to people, just because it's called a "skill league"... there are a lot of new players (new players make lots of mistakes) and freeroll chasers (they are not chasing freerolls because they have the skills to crush souls in real money games).

There is a lot to learn from playing and practicing in the skill league. As others have said. Learn how to beat the bad players early on by developing a good balance between stack protection and chip accumulation considerations. Learn how to beat the good players later as the tournament progreses towards the end game. Some of the "good" players in the skill league aren't really very good at poker yet, they've just figured out how to utilize an ABC style to take advantage of all the weak play to get past the money bubble with consistency. Some of the "good" players are good and utilize those skills in the later stages to give themselves a bigger edge.

There is a ton to practice/learn in this format and the practice is free save for your time. But expecting to join a skill league game and find a bunch of highly skilled play is pretty misguided. The good news is, when you join REAL MONEY games, especially those at micro-stakes, the play is very poor there too. If you can learn how to have consistent success in the skill leagues, I think many of the skills required to do this translate well to real money games. Yes some adjustments are needed (ie. the bubble thing, etc), but things like patience, balancing stack protection and chip accumulation, effective note taking, identifying player types, player leaks, and devising strategies to exploit them, etc, etc, etc... all these things are essential skills to REAL MONEY success. If you can't beat them here, you won't beat them for the real $'s.
 
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Fri Feb 25, 2011, 01:19 PM
(#19)
joker41673's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
I think the question was rhetorical Dan, seems like he wants to complain about the caliber of play in the skill league. The level of play, in general, is abysmal. Not sure why this is a surprise to people, just because it's called a "skill league"... there are a lot of new players (new players make lots of mistakes) and freeroll chasers (they are not chasing freerolls because they have the skills to crush souls in real money games).

There is a lot to learn from playing and practicing in the skill league. As others have said. Learn how to beat the bad players early on by developing a good balance between stack protection and chip accumulation considerations. Learn how to beat the good players later as the tournament progreses towards the end game. Some of the "good" players in the skill league aren't really very good at poker yet, they've just figured out how to utilize an ABC style to take advantage of all the weak play to get past the money bubble with consistency. Some of the "good" players are good and utilize those skills in the later stages to give themselves a bigger edge.

There is a ton to practice/learn in this format and the practice is free save for your time. But expecting to join a skill league game and find a bunch of highly skilled play is pretty misguided. The good news is, when you join REAL MONEY games, especially those at micro-stakes, the play is very poor there too. If you can learn how to have consistent success in the skill leagues, I think many of the skills required to do this translate well to real money games. Yes some adjustments are needed (ie. the bubble thing, etc), but things like patience, balancing stack protection and chip accumulation, effective note taking, identifying player types, player leaks, and devising strategies to exploit them, etc, etc, etc... all these things are essential skills to REAL MONEY success. If you can't beat them here, you won't beat them for the real $'s.

very well put sir
pay attention in class and listen to the teacher
 
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Fri Feb 25, 2011, 02:09 PM
(#20)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
The "skill" of the Skill League comes in using it as a TOOL to improve your overall game.

Step #1: Learn to beat the system.

This really isn't that hard, as all it takes is a lot of folding, and the occasional shove that stands up. It will, however, put some $ in your pocket. so the initial "lessons" in PSO are-

-DISCIPLINE and PATIENCE
-RISK/REWARD identification skewed toward SURVIVAL
-KNOWLEDGE of Push/Fold ranges

Step #2: Learn to MANAGE the "bank roll" you've built through League play.

This is a lot harder, especially for "free roll" players. Once you;ve gotten $30 or 450, or more, the urge is very strong to run out and play at levels with which you have little or no familiarity. You have no real reason to believe you will have any kind of skill advantage to paly at those levels, yet the new found "riches" encourages your to run right out and spend your League winnings.

You really shouldn't be doing that (in most cases)...

Step #3: Recognize that the PSO League gives you a great chance to EXPERIMENT with your game.

Instead of taking the cash you've won in step #1 and palying hard, why not then use PSO as a place to TEST your "skills"?

Sure, the league scoring system is skewed heavily toward risk avoidance, but that does not mean you cannot use the league games themselves as a way to test a more "proper" level of risk assessment.

Can you "read" the range of an opponent? Can you effectively decide which hands to paly against certain opponents? Are you using a more "proper" MTT strategy to play PSO League games, and LOGGING your results?

This "free roll" league is vastly different than any other free roll set up on Stars, insofar as you have a MIX of the "normal" free roll shove monkies, AND people working to play a more "solid" MTT game. This means you can TEST your poker skills agaisnt a far wider range of opponents than in a typical free roll. The key is: you need to actually have the "skill" to effectively STUDY your own play.

So...

The "skill" in the skill league coes down to:

A) Can YOU "beat it"?
B) Can YOU "build" fromt he moeny you win in it?
C) Can YOU use the league to "improve"?
 

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