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Mucking Rockets. Right or Wrong?

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Mucking Rockets. Right or Wrong? - Thu Feb 24, 2011, 07:57 PM
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sharkatack89's Avatar
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160 left for an itm of 144. Sitting on a little over 5k in chips. AA's into the muck utg +2. Thoughts, comments? Obviously this is skill league we are talking about. -shark
 
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Thu Feb 24, 2011, 08:02 PM
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Noevo's Avatar
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I ran into similar yesterday, I ran em out there and they held up. Your variance may...vary
 
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Thu Feb 24, 2011, 08:03 PM
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roomik17's Avatar
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brutal
 
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KK too - Thu Feb 24, 2011, 08:23 PM
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Just mucked KK 2 hands into the new one. UTG+1, blinds 15/30. Who knows anymore? PSO is wiggity wiggity whacked. -shark
 
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Thu Feb 24, 2011, 08:37 PM
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ssuglia's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkatack89 View Post
160 left for an itm of 144. Sitting on a little over 5k in chips. AA's into the muck utg +2. Thoughts, comments? Obviously this is skill league we are talking about. -shark
Skill League or not, there's no way I fold Aces in that spot.

First off, as far as it being a Skill League event, you're already into positive points and have nothing to lose. No reason to play scared.

(This thread is an excellent example of what's wrong with the Skill League set up, with players worrying more about ladder climbing than they are about winning an event, but that's for another thread.)

Second, that close to the money in a normal MTT, I'm looking to double up and run deep, not fold to just make the money.
 
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Thu Feb 24, 2011, 08:43 PM
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sharkatack89's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssuglia View Post
Skill League or not, there's no way I fold Aces in that spot.

First off, as far as it being a Skill League event, you're already into positive points and have nothing to lose. No reason to play scared.

(This thread is an excellent example of what's wrong with the Skill League set up, with players worrying more about ladder climbing than they are about winning an event, but that's for another thread.)

Second, that close to the money in a normal MTT, I'm looking to double up and run deep, not fold to just make the money.
Well, that's one way to look at it. Bubble pts, and itm pts are a big diff tho. but tks for the input.
 
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Thu Feb 24, 2011, 09:23 PM
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Moxie Pip's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkatack89 View Post
160 left for an itm of 144. Sitting on a little over 5k in chips. AA's into the muck utg +2. Thoughts, comments? Obviously this is skill league we are talking about. -shark
I put out say a 2.3 bet here and see what transpires. Don't know what kind of stacks or players you would be betting into here and that info would help me in answering your query here,but no way I just lay this hand down flat. Remeber if there are other "real" players here then they're playing with puckered little azzes as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkatack89 View Post
Just mucked KK 2 hands into the new one. UTG+1, blinds 15/30. Who knows anymore? PSO is wiggity wiggity whacked. -shark
Pretty much the same. I'm leading out with a 3x bet here. I get one shover on me (quite likely this early in a PSO ) and he needs to beat me because I'm going all day long. AA is all I'm sweating here anyway as I have every other hand dominated.

At some point shark,to me at least,it still has to be about poker. AA and KK are 2 of those points.

Given the situations presented here do I want to control the size of the pots if necessary? Yes certainly. But I'm playing these hands.
 
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Thu Feb 24, 2011, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ssuglia View Post
This thread is an excellent example of what's wrong with the Skill League set up, with players worrying more about ladder climbing than they are about winning an event, but that's for another thread.
I'd appreciate Dave's opinion on this, but I believe that folding AA preflop is sometimes very real poker. In bubble situations, and especially in satellite play, I think that folding AA is the correct move. If your stack is big enough to put in a bet without committing you, then I think that's a good idea here, in an unopened pot. It doesn't look like that was the case, so I really am curious what someone who understands tournament equity better than I do has to say about it.
 
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Thu Feb 24, 2011, 09:44 PM
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its simply situational...whats your goal? to make it to the money? if so the gauranteed way is to fold...folding AA is not a bad thing...im telling you..I have folding AA plenty of times and rightfully so cause after letting everyone else go to showdown (all in) my AA would not have held up...so i say its purely situational..lets say you raise 4bb with AA someone calls and the flop is KKQ...now what and you have seen this guy playing every K he could...its an automatic fold right? so i say AA is a great hand perflop but by the time the river comes anything can happen...so sometimes AA is great and sometimes its not good for anything but looking at...play the situation and not just the cards...the decision is yours to make...

but you cant really compare the skill league to other tourneys cause its different...so you have to play accordingly...
 
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Thu Feb 24, 2011, 09:49 PM
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Because of the position I agree with the fold. I am sure there are bigger stacks at the table and I always agree with getting the sure thing. If its in the bag, why risk it to see if you can go a little deeper and get 5 more points? I say this because I have found myself in similar situations and missed ITM because of being greedy. I'm learning that the sure thing is always the correct move. At least in league play. JMHO
 
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Thu Feb 24, 2011, 10:49 PM
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wherethesoda's Avatar
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Posts: 39
when im in that spot, with 5k, im actually shoving. but if i onlly have 2k im not. im shovin with 5k bc im hopin to get a fold
 
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Thu Feb 24, 2011, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkatack89 View Post
Just mucked KK 2 hands into the new one. UTG+1, blinds 15/30. Who knows anymore? PSO is wiggity wiggity whacked. -shark
What's the idea here? Play no hands until the negative point consequence of busting is acceptable? Was the table full of shove monkeys? I am going to play Kings and try to get all in pre-flop. If its the last tournament of the month and the consquences of busting early would be to drop a money spot I'd make an exception. But I would still see a flop with KK. Set mine!
 
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?? - Fri Feb 25, 2011, 09:04 AM
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monkeyskunk4's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
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okay- dont get mad shark- but if you not gonna play AA or KK at any stage-- why did you sit down- if there are 3,4,or 5 shuvs ahead of you -then maybe i can see laying them down- might as well sit out-i just dont understand ??
Also- as unlikely as it is to happen-lets say you are 20 from the money- in lp- and your lady is in the BB-short stacked- you fold AA or KK- she gets a pass- how you gonna explain that one?- i know you are on the up and up- just food for thought!! gl monk..

Last edited by monkeyskunk4; Fri Feb 25, 2011 at 09:12 AM.. Reason: ???
 
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Fri Feb 25, 2011, 11:28 AM
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AlphaAero's Avatar
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Skill League, if you think you have enough points to make the Points boost, stone cold fold, if you think that you are going to be extremely tight to make the money, ship it. Same goes for satelites.

Out of skill league sats, play it properly. in my honest.
 
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Fri Feb 25, 2011, 11:31 AM
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IroncladMerc's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 581
I'm starting to think you have to fold AA against some of these calling station donks who call your preflop raise with J9, flop an open ended straight draw, and then river the straight. They just won't fold any draw.
 
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Fri Feb 25, 2011, 11:49 AM
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19honu62's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkatack89 View Post
Well, that's one way to look at it. Bubble pts, and itm pts are a big diff tho. but tks for the input.
see this is exactly why I LMAO at anyone thinking that this "skill" league can be taken seriously. Do you ever ask yourself why the top players on this site don't play this joke of a format?
The fact that you are getting aces at this stage and you are laying it down and the position you have climbed to in the league is proof enough that this league is a joke!

Let me now explain something and be very clear! I am not questioning anyone's skill to play this game! I have opr and poker pro labs and shark scope and have watched many of you play in the corral games etc to know that you have talent.

What I am sickened by is that the "joke" league gives people a false sense of their true skill. Fact remains 90% of you are still getting crushed in regular sng's and mtt's because you are learning brutal habits from this "joke" league.

The fact that most of you can't or won't multi table is a problem. To play the PSO is fine and to spend hours a day doing is fine as long as you are playing other games as well to make profits.

So ask yourself the question..... how many hours am I putting into this to make $50 or $3 or no $$$ and then ask yourself how many hours you are putting into studying your game to improve. The answer is gonna be pretty shocking for most of you I'm afraid.

PS . many of you know that I am available to help with hand history reviews yet still don't take advantage of it!
LOL!

Gidee Up!


Last edited by 19honu62; Fri Feb 25, 2011 at 11:51 AM..
 
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Fri Feb 25, 2011, 12:25 PM
(#17)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Folding AA preflop is almost never correct. There are a few very specific circumstances where it is correct, but I do not believe this is one of them.

While it's true that the skil league point jump for min-cashing makes it play somewhat similar to a satellite if you are in contention for a high league ranking payout, it is not a satellite in the sense that as soon as the bubble bursts the tournament is over and everyone wins the same exact prize. The skill league tourney plays on and there are additional points to be had. Plus we don't have a hand history so we don't know what the stacks behind us are, who they are (as someone pointed out if they are highly ranked players they are probably folding most everything too as the bubble approaches), etc. But I'm 99% sure that folding the AA is a mistake here in the skill league. I'm 100% sure it's a mistake in any regular pay structure mtt.
 
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Fri Feb 25, 2011, 12:46 PM
(#18)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19honu62 View Post
see this is exactly why I LMAO at anyone thinking that this "skill" league can be taken seriously. Do you ever ask yourself why the top players on this site don't play this joke of a format?
The fact that you are getting aces at this stage and you are laying it down and the position you have climbed to in the league is proof enough that this league is a joke!

Let me now explain something and be very clear! I am not questioning anyone's skill to play this game! I have opr and poker pro labs and shark scope and have watched many of you play in the corral games etc to know that you have talent.

What I am sickened by is that the "joke" league gives people a false sense of their true skill. Fact remains 90% of you are still getting crushed in regular sng's and mtt's because you are learning brutal habits from this "joke" league.

The fact that most of you can't or won't multi table is a problem. To play the PSO is fine and to spend hours a day doing is fine as long as you are playing other games as well to make profits.

So ask yourself the question..... how many hours am I putting into this to make $50 or $3 or no $$$ and then ask yourself how many hours you are putting into studying your game to improve. The answer is gonna be pretty shocking for most of you I'm afraid.

PS . many of you know that I am available to help with hand history reviews yet still don't take advantage of it!
LOL!

Gidee Up!

+ 1billion
 
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Fri Feb 25, 2011, 01:59 PM
(#19)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
BronzeStar
Wow well said Honu.

I think if I was that close to the money with atleast a medium stack, I would probably fold AA if there were three or more shoves in front of me and atleast two of them could stack me. It's simply not worth the extra points to potentially run deep.
 

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