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AK is over-valued

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AK is over-valued - Tue Mar 01, 2011, 11:58 PM
(#1)
PresBruno's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 294
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New Rule: Don't put too much weight on AK.... only call a raise and don't go all-in unless you hit on the flop.

Even with 10's and I have AK suited I'm behind 55-45.... psh.
 
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 12:05 AM
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blindmice123's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 185
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i have a difficult time making KK hold on to be a winner... i am considering tossing them rather than betting on them..
it would cost me less chips!

 
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 12:39 AM
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hiphoplives's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 516
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well, you are wrong and you are right.

****you are "WRONG" in stating "only call a raise".

****you are "RIGHT" in stating "don't go ALL IN unless you hit the flop".
..........but i think that is a pretty much true statement for ALL hands. why go ALL IN if you hit the flop?

as poker is truly a very situational game, the "wrong" and "right" are in quotations, because what is wrong in one situation may be absolutely right in the other.

after all............AK is ranked 5th, 6th, and 7th in rank of starting hands according to various poker pro's hand ranking guides. Mike Caro ranks AK suited as 5th strongest starting hand, and AK offsuit as 7th strongest. Caro ranks pocket 10s as 6th, and even he has said that is the only ranking in the top 7 rankings that can really be debated. You can guess what hands are ranked higher than AK. (i hope)

I will raise with AK suited or offsuit any day of the week, but only in the "right" situation.

good luck with poker.
 
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 08:14 AM
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roomik17's Avatar
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 08:55 AM
(#5)
ssuglia's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiphoplives View Post
well, you are wrong and you are right.

****you are "WRONG" in stating "only call a raise".

****you are "RIGHT" in stating "don't go ALL IN unless you hit the flop".
..........but i think that is a pretty much true statement for ALL hands. why go ALL IN if you hit the flop?

as poker is truly a very situational game, the "wrong" and "right" are in quotations, because what is wrong in one situation may be absolutely right in the other.

after all............AK is ranked 5th, 6th, and 7th in rank of starting hands according to various poker pro's hand ranking guides. Mike Caro ranks AK suited as 5th strongest starting hand, and AK offsuit as 7th strongest. Caro ranks pocket 10s as 6th, and even he has said that is the only ranking in the top 7 rankings that can really be debated. You can guess what hands are ranked higher than AK. (i hope) I will raise with AK suited or offsuit any day of the week, but only in the "right" situation.

good luck with poker.
1. 9 4 offsuit
2. 2 7 offsuit
3. Q 7 suited
4. A 5 suited
5. K2 suited
6. J 4 offsuit


Was I right?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 09:15 AM
(#6)
Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
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Well, here is a more serious answer. Now I know I'm still gathering stats from my games, but if you checked out the thread regarding Group one and two hands in the Beginner's forum, you would see the numbers.

AK - suited
114 wins - 31 losses - 88 folded = overall winning percentage of 48.9%

AK - unsuited
259 wins - 77 losses - 234 folded = overall winning percentage of 45.4%



I too am confused how this can be classified as a group one hand. The hand might be good as a pre flop hand, but this hand needs help on the flop. If you do not pair, it becomes very weak. Since it is on a one-sided straight, you'll most likely be drawing to the inside. Not the best thing to be doing.


As to KK, they do tend to draw bullets all too often. My experience is that if there is no ace on the flop, your chances are still about 50-50 that an ace will appear. Perhaps that's how I remember those hands I lost. You do tend to fixate on the losses rather than the victories as the numbers do show this as a reasonably strong hand. Here are my stats for them.

247 win - 65 losses - 6 folded = overall winning percentage of 77.7%
 
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 09:19 AM
(#7)
bogweed1964's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 774
After extensive statistical analysis undertaken by a private study group of top poker players (who cannot be named for legal reasons) it was concluded that 7,3o is in fact the strongest starting hand it is possible to be dealt.

During the intensive study masses of hand data was collected which amounted to 9 combined hand histories and researchers worked intensively for over 15 minutes with the exception of a 5 min tourney break and an enforced re-boot caused by porn cookies blocking the computers cache.

7,3o was seen in ALL instances that it was dealt (1) to produce hands that beat monsters such as a wrap around straight, rainbow flush and even a gapped straight.

A full report on the breakthrough study is soon to be published at a toilet paper vendor near you.
 
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 09:48 AM
(#8)
hobojim11247's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PresBruno View Post
New Rule: Don't put too much weight on AK.... only call a raise and don't go all-in unless you hit on the flop.

Even with 10's and I have AK suited I'm behind 55-45.... psh.

This is prerequisite knowledge required for Holdem 102
 
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 12:37 PM
(#9)
AlphaAero's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 389
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Bogweed

7 3 off suit is infact an awful hand, I am sure you meant, specifically, 3h 7c, as this hand actually has a 99% chance of winning preflop, the other 1 percent is given by split pot potential. any other 73 is laughable.

Cairn,

Did you keep any data on at which point you Folded you AK's and whether or noth they would have held up had you not folded as, for instance, I could fold AK the next billion times I see it and say that over 1,000,000,000,000 hands it has a zero percent chance of winning.

(please remember that 1 billion is numerically different dependding on where you are from)

Regards
 
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 01:19 PM
(#10)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
AK is a frequently overplayed hand imo.

Please keep in mind that Sklansky's original hand ranking were for LIMIT Hold'Em, not No Limit. I read (a while back and I don't remember by who or where) that for NLHE Group 1 should be AA & KK.
 
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 01:23 PM
(#11)
Deleted user
Here are my stats for Ak and AKos and added AA since I have not idea how to filter it out.
This is pulled from 500K in hands.2nd picture is just more of picture one.Hopefully it makes sense or I will explain anything needed.

[IMG] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]

[IMG] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]

I filtered out some stats,to make the search quicker.
 

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