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Definition of a donk???

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Definition of a donk??? - Wed Mar 02, 2011, 08:32 PM
(#1)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
I read a lot on this site about donks or even hear some of the less erudite amongst us cry donk when they lose a hand where they have the premium holding and believe that they should win the hand of natural right. Even more ironic, is the cry that the League is full of donks, who call with any two cards. Personally, I am yet to see this phenomenon in the Pokerschool League or any of the tournaments associated with the site. Indeed, I would say, that the majority play tight, but Jesus do they play slow.

I have the privilege, (if you could call it that) to play in the German freerolls and tournaments because I am resident here. Virtually every hand, three people are all-in in the early stages (1st half hour) with absolute air; Aces, Kings, Queens or Jacks, forget it, because they will be dumped virtually every time you play. In the first hour, you have moved tables so many times that you are dizzy; with a bit of luck, you get to a table where they play reasonable poker and your premium hands might double you up and you are still alive the first hour. If you survive that long, and are on an average stack, you may find yourself at a table with similarly stacked players, and you end up playing real poker for half an hour. Your stack is just building up, and comfort is setting in and then you are sent back to the war zone. You are the short stack at 40K, and most of your "colleagues" at the table have 150K plus; they will go all in pre-flop on any two face cards, suited connectors, 84, 95, 35, whatever you like. Out of all this deluge you have to pick a spot and pray you hit something. Raise 4X with pocket Aces in the big blind; at least four people will call you. **** variance, this is poker... German style!!

Now, all of you may think, "this is awful", but in the real world, outside of the 1/2 cent, 5/10 cent ring games and tourneys this is how it starts to go. Ever played at the mid level or high level cash games or tournies on Pokerstars; your premium hand means nothing, people have banks so huge, that calling you, pre-flop, flop, turn and river is just their day job to hit a big score. Has no one on this site taken the time or opportunity to look at the High Stakes Poker on Pokerstars.tv? I feel maybe PresBruno has because I saw one comment underneath a programme and it said "Professional Donkeys" and I thought of him immediately!!!

Everybody, do yourselves a favour and watch this show? Tom Dwan has won it the last three seasons and I never saw a hand he won where he was favourite anywhere but on the river. Negranua has never won a session never mind a series. He just does not know when to play like the donkey.

And therein lies the answer: Dave says often in his lessons ( I was only on one (always too late for me) but also in his posts) that you can play textbook poker and still not win a tourney. You need a bit of luck and you need to win some races, and sometimes you need to read your opponents and play with a little imagination and creativity, and sometimes you just have to follow your gut and be lucky. You have to adapt to the company you are playing in and the way they play.

I play tight in pokerschool tourneys, because the majority of players are tight, but what really is a donkey? In the past two days I had Aces twice, Kings twice, Queens and Jacks once; all in late position and I made a standard 4X raise to all the calls before me. Every time somebody went all in and every time it was with pocket fours and every time a four came on the flop. God I hate pocket fours!!! Who is the bigger donkey though? Someone who calls your raise with 56 unsuited or someone who goes all in pocket fours? To me they are all jut players to whom I must adjust and adapt.

Best hand ever tho was this evening on a league tourney. I was big stack, on the big blind, with Kings. Calls all round; I raise it 4X; UTG goes all in, Cutoff goes all in. I have to call. UTG shows 9s, Cutoff Qs. Flop 9, Turn Q, River????

Yeah, you guessed it, it was a King and I busted both of them.

Sometimes the premium hands do hold

Disclaimer on that because J2 will beat AK 30 % of the time. Remember that players.

Hiccup

Last edited by topthecat; Wed Mar 02, 2011 at 08:38 PM.. Reason: forgot something
 
Old
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 08:52 PM
(#2)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
I don't much go for it when it's thrown at a player who has another player covered and is going in as say a 60-40 underdog. That's not being a donk,it's gambling. Some of that is actually REQUIRED to advance in a tourney,or SNG or whatever.

Besides as far as the true donks in this league, and anywhere else, go ( and top,there are plenty of those) these are the players who are going to pay you off more often than not. Give me a couple/three real donks at my tables all day long please.
 
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 08:52 PM
(#3)
EndlessMyk's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 33
BronzeStar
*starts the slow clap*

Well said.
 
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 09:01 PM
(#4)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
I agree with you Moxie wholeheartedly.

I have been called a donk for calling an A7 with a pair of sevens and a seven on the flop ( I think it was Pres Bruno).

I think the system is great the way it is and i would always go all in when short stacked with small pocket pair. Maybe you misunderstood my Irish LOL.

It is just that i have read on the forum people looking a separate league for donks: and in my opinion there are not too many playing here; but if Phil Ivey or Durr calls with 27 are they donks? As Brunson says Poker is not just about the cards you get.....

I will try and find the thread for you
 
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Donk Definition - Wed Mar 02, 2011, 09:14 PM
(#5)
StrikeSeven's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 19
BronzeStar
Do you want it? You might not like what you see:

Donk- a player of the sort that has no common sense. Often these players do not have great computers, and the Pokerstars software is lacking all buttons except Fold or All in. It is an unfortunate disease of Donkitis and must be stopped. Over 10 million are infected. Please help us.
 
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 09:14 PM
(#6)
Ace King 61's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 421
BronzeStar
Obviously you are very lucky or blessed...or both! I would say at least 1/3rd of pso players are "donks". Show me just one that has a rank of worse than 10K after a whole month of playing that wouldn't be considered a donk. Also it's mostly the same people month after month. They are not trying to improve at all. Nothing but a freeroll to them and if they, by chance, knock out someone on the leaderboard, chat will be saying, "ha ha" almost every time.

Personally I can't imagine spending that much time each and every month trying to be dead last....but they continue to do it.
 
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 09:14 PM
(#7)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
I'll say two things as far as to how many donks,ATC Monkeys and what have that there are here---

1. There are'nt any more of those type of players here than there are in the micro level MTT's,Turbos and SNG's that I play. And from what I've seen when I watch play at the intermediate and higher levels I agree with top here---if you think there are'nt plenty of them there then you're nuts. As many as these lower levels and freerolls? No I don't think so,at least from what I've observed. But still plenty.

2. I think the reason that we saw a drop in entries to the PSO's the second half of last month that was somewhat larger than the dropoffs in previous months have been is that alot of the ATC smonkeys and the Sit and Shoves saw the realities of the new 10% ITM threshold and decided that it's too hard to get their pennies and packed it in.

As to top mentioning the idea he's heard others bandy about vis-a-vis creating some sort of tiered system so the "better" players don't have to play with the donks.....

many of us know this has been proposed before and top,from what he's posted here, I'm sure would be right along the same line of thinking that most of us are.....

If anyone thinks that they are one of those "better " players,why the Hell would you NOT want to play with donks? That's at cross purposes to what you are trying to accomplish on a poker table--ACQUIRE CHIPS. You would rather try to take them off nothing but good players?

LOL,good luck with that anyone who's for that idea.
 
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 09:25 PM
(#8)
spike8998's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 853
There is no such thing as a "donk" per se
In my opinion there is good play and bad play
If A7 wishes to go all in with 7 high board and it gets checked to them and
is then called by pocket 7's
A7 made the bad play wheresas 77 made the good play
One should always read the board and work out what hand you could be losing to
Value bets give you a fair indication if you are behind/ahead
 
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 09:33 PM
(#9)
spike8998's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 853
1st hand PSO WARM-UP
Couple of minutes after last post


PokerStars Game #58562996064: Tournament #368726103, Freeroll Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2011/03/03 2:30:01 WET [2011/03/02 21:30:01 ET]
Table '368726103 16' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: NINOCOLA (1500 in chips)
Seat 2: boldon (1500 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 3: johanurmo (1500 in chips)
Seat 4: chrismfin (1500 in chips)
Seat 5: JBCD71 (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: ReluF (1500 in chips)
Seat 7: coyotea1 (1500 in chips)
Seat 8: spike8998 (1500 in chips)
Seat 9: jtb-65 (1500 in chips)
boldon: posts small blind 10
johanurmo: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to spike8998 [9s Ad]
chrismfin: folds
JBCD71: folds
ReluF: folds
coyotea1: folds
spike8998: calls 20
jtb-65: folds
NINOCOLA: folds
boldon: folds
johanurmo: checks
*** FLOP *** [Th Td 8h]
johanurmo: checks
boldon has returned
spike8998: bets 60
johanurmo: folds
Uncalled bet (60) returned to spike8998
spike8998 collected 50 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 50 | Rake 0
Board [Th Td 8h]
Seat 1: NINOCOLA (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: boldon (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: johanurmo (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: chrismfin folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: JBCD71 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: ReluF folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: coyotea1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: spike8998 collected (50)
Seat 9: jtb-65 folded before Flop (didn't bet)


comments please
 
Old
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 09:56 PM
(#10)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
He thought that you were a donkey... Heehaw

seriously typical of pokerschool play; I would have folded unless I had a ten or two LOL
 
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 10:09 PM
(#11)
spike8998's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by topthecat View Post
He thought that you were a donkey... Heehaw

seriously typical of pokerschool play; I would have folded unless I had a ten or two LOL


spike
 
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donk play - Wed Mar 02, 2011, 10:18 PM
(#12)
CDNHamster's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 63
I was not involved in the hand but a nice verbal fight ensued for 20 minutes after this hand.

Player 1 UTG raises 1000 chips with antes being 50/ 100 everyone folds except SB which calls.

9 2 7 rainbow on the flop - UTG raises 2000 chips SB calls.

J on the turn - (suites are irrelevant on the hand for reasons soon explained) UTG shoves for 10k chips BS calls.

Ac on the river UTG checks, SB pushes all in for 40k chips.

Hands - UTG KhKd SB As5h
SB chased an ace for the entire hand and caught it on the river where as UTG had the nuts and played it correctly, and understandably UTG was mad as hell and launched a verbal assault (which I dont agree with) onto SB.
In this case I believe SB made a donk call and got lucky - if you were UTG how would you feel being sucked out on the river??

Hence that is the definition of a donk - it maybe gambling to some but to those who actually play poker following some of the lessons taught and recommended in the PSO would shudder and understandably shake their heads at the DONK play.

cheers the Hamster
 
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 10:20 PM
(#13)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
I looked it up in the dictionary.

Next to the definition of "donk" there was a picture of <insert name here>!!!!!
 
Old
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 10:21 PM
(#14)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
I have to disagree with AK, some people just play for fun or do not have the time to participate in the league enough times each day to get a reasonable score.

With the way the timing is I can play twice a day at 19.00 and 21.00 (European time) if I am not doing anything else? Discount Fri, Sat and Sun and I was only on here tonight at 11.30 cos I have no work tomorrow and the woman is on business in France. I have played 5 times this month already and that is more than I played last month.

TBH to play this league with a view of winning, I would need to play at least 4 tournies a day, and with the time difference and the length of time a PSO League tourney takes, it is just not possible.

Some play every tourney, good luck to them. Some play 40 tables, I wish I knew how but that is a separate thread.

I enjoy playing, win or lose. I like chatting with others along the way and hopefully improve my game. I have moved from shifting 2K a month on Pokerstars and being up 8K one night to down 10 K the next on cash tables. I am at a happy 50$ playing only PSO and freerolls. If I ever get to 1000$ I will move back to cash. Lesson learned and more to learn.

Nice talking to all of you.

TC
 
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 10:29 PM
(#15)
spike8998's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 853
As microsoft wordprocessor dictionary
Donkey definition


donkey [dóngki]
(plural donkeys)
n
1. animal resembling small horse: a small domesticated member of the horse family with a grey or brown coat, long ears, and a large head.
Latin name: Equus asinus
2. unintelligent person: somebody thought of as lacking intelligence (informal insult)
 
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 10:34 PM
(#16)
Mmmm Fish's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 705
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDean View Post
I looked it up in the dictionary.

Next to the definition of "donk" there was a picture of Mmmm Fish!!!!!
Can't disagree with you there JDean. Wish I could, but I can't.
 
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 10:35 PM
(#17)
FarrahnsMom's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 242
ace rag small pocket pair im starting to foam at the mouth
 
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 10:43 PM
(#18)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Microsoft Dictionary: words more evil than goggle

http://www.shamanicjourney.com/artic...nce-dedication
 
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 10:54 PM
(#19)
ssuglia's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,393
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDean View Post
I looked it up in the dictionary.

Next to the definition of "donk" there was a picture of JDean!!!!!
I saw it with my own eyes!
 
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Wed Mar 02, 2011, 11:28 PM
(#20)
spike8998's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 853
PokerStars Game #58566631869: Tournament #368726104, Freeroll Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2011/03/03 4:27:04 WET [2011/03/02 23:27:04 ET]
Table '368726104 3' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Punky Locos (2995 in chips)
Seat 2: spike8998 (4260 in chips)
Seat 3: medwick123 (1320 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 4: alapdog (2215 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 5: JP4Jackpot (1675 in chips)
Seat 6: z_Dan_2299 (1340 in chips)
Seat 7: ICULQQKN (1350 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 8: Raynman 33 (3935 in chips)
Seat 9: J3Tees (1350 in chips) is sitting out
JP4Jackpot: posts small blind 25
z_Dan_2299: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to spike8998 [2h 4s]
ICULQQKN: folds
Raynman 33: folds
J3Tees: folds
Punky Locos: folds
spike8998: raises 200 to 250
medwick123: folds
alapdog: folds
JP4Jackpot: folds
z_Dan_2299: folds
Uncalled bet (200) returned to spike8998
spike8998 collected 125 from pot
spike8998: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 125 | Rake 0
Seat 1: Punky Locos folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: spike8998 collected (125)
Seat 3: medwick123 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: alapdog (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: JP4Jackpot (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: z_Dan_2299 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: ICULQQKN folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Raynman 33 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: J3Tees folded before Flop (didn't bet)
 

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