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folding.....in cash games

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folding.....in cash games - Thu Mar 03, 2011, 03:02 AM
(#1)
hiphoplives's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 516
BronzeStar
so this is an online poker forum....

i will describe a "live" poker cash game hand that cost me a bit tonight that i pondered for a while....i want to learn from this........and i am sure this also applies online, i just dont play many cash games online at all to have a perspective on this.............i am 98% tourneys online.

so i have 78 hearts...... in the small blind, and i am holding 340$ in chips. max buy in for this cash table is 500$. i bought in for 200$

so table folds around to cutoff, who min raises to 10$.......this table has been pretty tight.......and i know NOBODY at this table. i am in for 5$ with 78h in SB. so i CALL....BB checks.......

flop is a dream............. 6h 9h 5s ...... i check, just as i would holding crap in the sb..........

i knew that the raiser (cutoff) was gonna bet regardless....... so bb checks and cutoff bets 20$.....of course.

i reraise to 50$ for value......... because i thought cutoff was gonna call for sure with just about anything........and bb was gonna fold.

that is what happens. turn is Ah.

i check.

he checks...............

river is blank.......Kc.

i bet 25$............it was partly a value bet, yet i picked up on something when he checked, ( couldn't tell if it was weakness or strong.) so i wanted to hopefully just have him call me for 25$ with a weak Ace or some missed draw pair.

he reraises to 60$..............i tank for a couple seconds and say " you have a flush too?"

i call. he turns over Jh 4h. a better fush than mine.

he raised in cutoff with Jh 4h.............i was behind the whole way...and then after the turn.

did i play this hand "right"?


sorry no hand history , this was the best i could do. i would love some feedback because this player was a super loose player who i had seen just flat call to the river in a couple hands before......and win ! and with my monster flop and draw that kept getting better i just couldn't get away.

what do u do? or is it just one of those hands where u cant do anything.

i chalked it up to that. but i guess i could have lost more.........?
 
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Thu Mar 03, 2011, 03:05 AM
(#2)
hiphoplives's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 516
BronzeStar
and i should add that i was relatively "new" to the table. i had been there maybe 30 minutes, i don't know a soul.
 
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Thu Mar 03, 2011, 03:30 AM
(#3)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
I would have hit the flop hard especially with two hearts on the board and having a str. The temptation is to play for value but if someone is loose they will call anything, better to know that after a bet, not after a check. Checking is always a sign of weakness, more so live than on here where so many people check.

Hachem, and most other pros will tell you fold or raise on the flop; maybe check if you have the absolute nuts, otherwise if you do not bet you have no idea where you are at and you have no control of the pot. The cut off became the aggressor even though you had the best hand at that point simply because you checked.

Real life is no different from here only that you get more hands per hour. buy in for 200$ here and you are on a 3/6$ table, they will 4 bet with air in the SB and probably they will raise any re-raise.

If you had raised on the flop (big enough) you might have pushed him off, if not you had to fold when the heart came, as hard as that might seem. It is really easy to say but so much more difficult to do in practice. As you said yourself it could have been a whole lot more.

TC
 
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Thu Mar 03, 2011, 03:40 AM
(#4)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
His going along with your re- raise on the flop would have alerted me that a flush draw is one of the holdings I would be worried about on his part,so I really don't want to see any more hearts in this hand as your flush is fairly weak. When the heart hits the turn I'm surprised neither of you bet out just to see where you were at least. I doubt seriously that you could have pushed him off,especially if he was playing loose,as you said. When he came over the top on the river I think I would have let it go at that point as he was showing loose and prolly figures he can bully you now so you could have waited him out for a better spot that this one.

But you could have lost alot more here as well so nothing done badly here really. Just one of those hands.
 
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Thu Mar 03, 2011, 03:55 AM
(#5)
hiphoplives's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 516
BronzeStar
thank u for the replies...

i was feeling exactly what u said moxie.......i definately felt a flush draw was in his range for sure.......but i just couldn't help but betting small on the river in hopes that this chaser maybe hit a straight or an ace........but even when i called on the river i had a gut feeling i was beat with a better flush. and when he checked the turn i picked up on a more "strong" check than a weak one....if u know what i mean. that's why i small bet the river.....i almost checked again, but i didn't want to leave myself in the position to think about a made flush calll with a huge bet......he had more chips than me.......i think i may have saved a tad bit the way i played it.

but i still lost the pot.

but that's poker....how often do u get the chance to make your hand on the flop and better it on the turn and still be drawing to a better hand? kinda crazy..

but you know what ? he played it perfectly. so kudos.

and topthecat....please post more...........i kinda agree with your theory on pushing the flop harder............but this guy was really calling with ATC and filling up......so i thought i was gonna be his cooler for a couple hundred if i bet the river hard after i made my flush. but, being that it was live, he had a definate tell when he checked the turn that he was strong. but i agree..u gotta get it in when it's good..but sometimes it will cost u more..u know?
 
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Thu Mar 03, 2011, 04:51 AM
(#6)
antlovesang1's Avatar
Since: May 2010
Posts: 931
too too many times i myself and have seen others flop a nut str8 and in your case open end str8 flush draw my advice is to go at it be aggresive let him no you limped in and that the board is good to you forget typical betting styles especially with a flush draw so i gather the pot is $20 i would bet maybe those odds greater than that of him hitting a flush draw then when you saw the 3rd hard you could make the easy lay down
 
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Thu Mar 03, 2011, 10:55 AM
(#7)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
BronzeStar
I think you could have raised more on the flop. Another $10 or $20 more to try and weed out the flush draws. I'm not a fan of your river bet either. I think you should have bet, but it should have been around double the amount. Betting so small makes you look weak so you won't really know if your beat or if he is just making a move on you. If you then got reraised you could fold. Your check on the turn was good. He was probably chasing so good idea to pot control some. Once the turn came there really isn't a whole lot you could do, kind of destined to lose some money at that point.
 

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