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4Betting/5Betting Question - Playing Aces

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4Betting/5Betting Question - Playing Aces - Wed Mar 09, 2011, 02:45 PM
(#1)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
So I was at Live Training yesterday, and made a fair amount of money at the cash tables last night, and I was definitely putting the 3betting concepts to work. With more knowledge about how reraising works and why people do it, and how I can use it to get value out of my hands, I was doing it more often, because I kinda knew what I was doing. I was also folding to 4bets where appropriate, which probably saved me a lot of money as well. So thanks for that.

Here is my question though, and I know you addressed this to some extent yesterday, but I'm occasionally slow . How do you play aces OOP when there's a raise behind you, and then a 4bet by the same player?

Example:

You're in the small blind with aces, and the button opens for 3x. You 3bet 3x, and action folds back to the button, who 4bets. Should you 5bet OOP to charge them the maximum, and in hopes that they 6bet, or flat so as not to fold out weaker hands (although they're all weaker at this point)?

I'm also curious if you'd play KK or QQ differently.

Thanks!
 
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Thu Mar 10, 2011, 01:47 AM
(#2)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,510
(Head Trainer)
It depends on the opponent, and the depth of money. If his 4b is basically committing him, then I'll just get the money in. If we're super deep then I want to 5b to either facilitate the money going in pre or create easy post flop decisions where getting it in will be a no brainer on most boards. If they are capable of 4b bluffing and have enough behind to fold to a 5b, then I might consider flatting, but that is also problematic in that flatting a 4b out of position looks super strong anyway. At micros most of your 4b's that are not from maniacs are value hands that they plan to stack off with, not bluffs (and when I say value hand, I mean in their eyes... for example we saw someone during a micro stakes replayer session 4b/stack off AQo, guarantee he thought this hand was worth getting in pre in that particular spot even though the play was actually attrocious). Usually 5b is fine, especially considering their 4b will usually mean a really strong (in their eyes) hand.
 
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Thu Mar 10, 2011, 02:41 AM
(#3)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Alright, thanks. That makes sense. I suppose some basic reads on opponents would help, too. If they are weakish players, stacking off w/ AQ is something they might predictably do. But decent players might be more complex. I can definitely see 20-tablers just 6-bet jamming there almost 100% of the time, whereas skilled 4-tablers might be more capable of laying down to a 5-bet. I guess if I'm paying attention, I can predict the actions of some of these players.
 
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Thu Mar 10, 2011, 07:55 AM
(#4)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
Great answer Langolier and I would like to add or clarify one thing. AA no matter how deep I am my goal is always to be the last one to raise with the hope of getting all the money in pre. Reads are uber important but my AA is always having the last word because I am never behind pre!

Gidee Up!

 
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Thu Mar 10, 2011, 03:07 PM
(#5)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,510
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 19honu62 View Post
Great answer Langolier and I would like to add or clarify one thing. AA no matter how deep I am my goal is always to be the last one to raise with the hope of getting all the money in pre. Reads are uber important but my AA is always having the last word because I am never behind pre!

Gidee Up!

ALWAYS happy to get all the monies in pre with AA. But we may not always have the last word (and that's ok)... depending on the depth of money, opponent, and bet sizing, we may make a smaller raise that induces a spaz, if an all in or committing raise is too large (this is particularly a good idea vs. someone who can 4b bluff, leaving them room to spaz their bluff in with an illusion of fold equity).
 

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