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Average Chips Counts

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Average Chips Counts - Mon Mar 14, 2011, 04:59 PM
(#1)
tomrankin51's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 242
BronzeStar
Hello everyone

When assessing strategy and stack/tournament health, how do people approach using the average chip count, and how does that affect the way you play?

Usually, people only talk about your stack relative to the blinds and people assume that you should lessen hand requirements, when you really should be looking to playing position etc (another thread...).

My thoughts are that maybe the average chip count should be your guide in loosening up. Let me try and give some examples, along with my thought process...

Example 1 - the blinds are 15/30, and you have 1500 chips. In this situation, you are healthy. You can play as you choose. However, if you then add in that the average chip count is 2000, should you now take a risk in hand standards to get back over that 2000 chip figure while the value of those hands is still high enough to utilise? If not, why not?

The second part of the question relates to others stack sizes relative to the average chip count and blinds. Example...

The blinds are 125/250 ante 25. You have 3250 chips. Oh, oh - it's shoving time. However, the average is 2500. Are you still looking to shove on the next worthwhile hand, or play in a standard fashion? Classic theory tells me to still shove due to pot controlling reasons.

Now, imagine the above example, and that everyone at the table has less chips than you. How does this (or should this) affect your play? If everyone has more chips than you then I would expect to shove.

So often, I see a lot of people still posting standard raises and playing the streets when their stacks tell me they should be shoving. This can be entire tables too. So, either the majority have very poor stack management skills, or they know something I don't.

TL; DR
How does the average chip count decide your play, and how does it link into the classic stack management strategies? And lots of players play standard with small stacks. Poor stack management, or something I'm not aware of?

Cheers!
Tom
 
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Wed Mar 23, 2011, 07:59 AM
(#2)
ketchup143's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 279
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomrankin51 View Post
Hello everyone

When assessing strategy and stack/tournament health, how do people approach using the average chip count, and how does that affect the way you play?

Usually, people only talk about your stack relative to the blinds and people assume that you should lessen hand requirements, when you really should be looking to playing position etc (another thread...).

My thoughts are that maybe the average chip count should be your guide in loosening up. Let me try and give some examples, along with my thought process...

Example 1 - the blinds are 15/30, and you have 1500 chips. In this situation, you are healthy. You can play as you choose. However, if you then add in that the average chip count is 2000, should you now take a risk in hand standards to get back over that 2000 chip figure while the value of those hands is still high enough to utilise? If not, why not?

The second part of the question relates to others stack sizes relative to the average chip count and blinds. Example...

The blinds are 125/250 ante 25. You have 3250 chips. Oh, oh - it's shoving time. However, the average is 2500. Are you still looking to shove on the next worthwhile hand, or play in a standard fashion? Classic theory tells me to still shove due to pot controlling reasons.

Now, imagine the above example, and that everyone at the table has less chips than you. How does this (or should this) affect your play? If everyone has more chips than you then I would expect to shove.

So often, I see a lot of people still posting standard raises and playing the streets when their stacks tell me they should be shoving. This can be entire tables too. So, either the majority have very poor stack management skills, or they know something I don't.

TL; DR
How does the average chip count decide your play, and how does it link into the classic stack management strategies? And lots of players play standard with small stacks. Poor stack management, or something I'm not aware of?

Cheers!
Tom
As for your first point, i don't think you can use chip average as a guide for what hands you should play. the tourney average is just a guide to tell you how everyone else is doing, but it shouldn't really dictate how u play until you are short stacked. i like to keep my stack around the average, as i imagine u do too, but you don't want to take any unncessary risks just to get it there until the blinds are forcing u to, ie. <12bbs or what have you. if the blinds are only 15/30 and the average is already up to 2000, that tells me that a ton of donks have already busted shoving, which means it's gonna be an easy tournament to cash in if you just play ur good hands aggressively, ie. no need to force anything when aggressive action is not needed. as for your second point, i agree that you do need to be shoving when everyone has less chips. wow, i'd love to know what tourney has the average stack at 2500 when the blinds are 125/250 i know it's just an example, but that tells me that it's gonna be easy sailing for u if u have 3250 chips in this spot. ur opponents are giving u a cheap chance at catching something on the flop, and when you do, even if they don't commit themselves, ur still gonna have an easy time getting chips. u might want to try just limping on the button or something once in awhile to catch ur opponents off guard and to make it easy on urself when they shove and u don't have much, but for the most part, u are correct that they are not utilizing their stack properly and that u should still continue to shove.
 
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?? - Wed Mar 23, 2011, 08:26 AM
(#3)
monkeyskunk4's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,818
Hey man- just so you know- the average chip stack amount in the lobby - is just that-- the # of chips in play ,, divided by # of players remaining-- i can never remember the difference between -- the 'mean' and the 'median' in any case- that # is not truly representative of the average stack--on an individual stack basis--- JDEAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!-- help me man--lolo-

And as far as seeing people calling when they clearly should be shuvving- is,imo- PSO specific-see a flop and shuv/ fold-- but still hang around if you miss - so as to lose the least # of points--gl. monk-
 
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Wed Mar 23, 2011, 03:25 PM
(#4)
ketchup143's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 279
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyskunk4 View Post
Hey man- just so you know- the average chip stack amount in the lobby - is just that-- the # of chips in play ,, divided by # of players remaining-- i can never remember the difference between -- the 'mean' and the 'median' in any case- that # is not truly representative of the average stack--on an individual stack basis--- JDEAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!-- help me man--lolo-

And as far as seeing people calling when they clearly should be shuvving- is,imo- PSO specific-see a flop and shuv/ fold-- but still hang around if you miss - so as to lose the least # of points--gl. monk-
median is a much better stat than the average, yes. average is affected by outliers, whereas median is not. i hate the limp-shove play, but if it works in the pso i guess people will keep doing it. if u don't know what median is, it's just the actual chip stack that is in the exact middle. therefore, it's almost ALWAYS going to be less than the average in the micro games because people are going to err on the aggressive side and risk all their chips too often, so there will be somebody scooping up the massive pots left and right.

Last edited by ketchup143; Wed Mar 23, 2011 at 03:28 PM..
 

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