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Sure I knock it down. But is it correct Play?

 
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Sure I knock it down. But is it correct Play? - Thu Mar 17, 2011, 06:08 PM
(#1)
JT_Sooooted's Avatar
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Was this a value bet?
Was this a steal?
What were opponents ranges? Specifically Kukoc......the SuperNova?

Thx
JT
 
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Thu Mar 17, 2011, 06:26 PM
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JT,

I'll comment but I dont know if I'm qualified to answer the specific questions you're asking tbh, though I'd like to know why you just called rather than raised to isolate?

For me there are two plays - set mining or isolation. Generally with stacks under say 150-200BB I'm thinking you shouldn't set mine due to losing so many chips for the 7 times you don't flop the third 8. So wouldn't you raise to force out everyone other than maybe the opener and then bet out on the flop as normal when the board is all undercards?

BTW, I'm not sure what anyone really had. No-one played the hand like they really wanted to do anything with it. Passive with underbets, until everyone just kind of let it go. Maybe the opener had a baby Ace of clubs. Maybe? You definitely had the best hand pre, post and on the turn so I say you value bet. You certainly didn't steal it cos it was yours all along.

Last edited by tomrankin51; Thu Mar 17, 2011 at 06:37 PM..
 
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Thu Mar 17, 2011, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomrankin51 View Post
JT,

I'm not qualified to answer the specific questions you're asking tbh, but I'd like to know why you just called rather than raised to isolate?

For me there are two plays - set mining or isolation. Generally with stacks under say 150-200BB I'm thinking you shouldn't set mine due to losing so many chips for the 7 times you don't flop the third 8. So wouldn't you raise to force out everyone other than maybe the opener and then bet out on the flop as normal when the board is all undercards?
Perfect question...............

1) the replayer doesn't explain the game.........this I hate.
This is a $21.20 50/50...part of the biggest thread going here at the PSO.
2) my thinking is someone may have me beat, I may need my set and I don't want to shove and get called by the overpair

Anymore?

JT
 
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Fri Mar 18, 2011, 06:58 AM
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topthecat's Avatar
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Posts: 1,962
Ok I will take a shot at this JT.

I would say the ranges of your opponents were broadway and face cards upwards. At this point in the tourney their opening range was probably fairly wide.

Rainbow flop. The hundred bets on the flop could have signified set mining or drawing to a straight, maybe even a two outer to the flop, an overpair and off course also weak hands. Big fear was the over pair but they would be more likely to raise that and you could not see where you were with the button as you played in front of him.

The turn brings the second diamond. Two checks indicate weakness but the button still has to act after you. The 200 is a value bet. You do not want to inflate the pot if the button is on a draw and give him pot odds to call.

If the big blind calls or raises he could be on a fush or str draw or both. In the event he folds indicating two face cards and no value in him continuing to bet.

TC
 
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Fri Mar 18, 2011, 10:18 AM
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JWK24's Avatar
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I put them on 2 high cards..... no problem with the way you played it and I'd have done the same.

If they had an overpair, they'd have raised you... in which case I'd have folded.
 
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Fri Mar 18, 2011, 12:17 PM
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TheLangolier's Avatar
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I think your line is fine here JT at the 25-50 level of a 50/50. Your bet on the turn is a value bet. It's not a bluff as no better hands are folding. It's a value bet as you can get called by worse, specifically 5x and draws, as well as pair+draws like 54 or 44. The bet is for value and also to protect your equity from random overards like KQ getting a free shot to beat you on the river.
 
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Fri Mar 18, 2011, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
I think your line is fine here JT at the 25-50 level of a 50/50. Your bet on the turn is a value bet. It's not a bluff as no better hands are folding. It's a value bet as you can get called by worse, specifically 5x and draws, as well as pair+draws like 54 or 44. The bet is for value and also to protect your equity from random overards like KQ getting a free shot to beat you on the river.
This post may be why Dave is a teacher here at PSO. Thank You Sir!

Surely, better hands aren't folding to this bet. If they are, I need in their home games.

This forum needs to understand that this game isn't luck. It's knowledge and skill. Maybe not in that order. However, if you analyze each situation. I believe you can come up with the correct move 95% to 98% of the time.

Thx
Dave

JT
 
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Fri Mar 18, 2011, 03:49 PM
(#8)
topthecat's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topthecat View Post
Ok I will take a shot at this JT.
The 200 is a value bet.
TC
Well the lessons by Dave seem to be paying off then

TC
 
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Fri Mar 18, 2011, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topthecat View Post
Well the lessons by Dave seem to be paying off then

TC
Dave does great work!

JT
 
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Fri Mar 18, 2011, 03:53 PM
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Actually, considering you can't control or predict what cards will be dealt and which ones show up on the board, it is 100% luck. The knowledge and skill comes in when you try to optimize the outcome of the situation (in terms of the long run expectations), basing you decisions on the cards dealt and the incomplete information given.
 
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Fri Mar 18, 2011, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockerguyAA View Post
Actually, considering you can't control or predict what cards will be dealt and which ones show up on the board, it is 100% luck. The knowledge and skill comes in when you try to optimize the outcome of the situation (in terms of the long run expectations), basing you decisions on the cards dealt and the incomplete information given.
Incorrect Sir!

Luck plays a part. However, good players put themselves into situations to get lucky.

100% LUCK is NOT correct.

JT
 

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