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AK vs A2

 
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AK vs A2 - Thu Mar 17, 2011, 09:38 PM
(#1)
Triggz88's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 28
BronzeStar
ok previous to this I had a massive stack and ran into quads when i had second nut flush which wiped my stack out so just wanted to take the blinds down should i have played this any different?

 
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Fri Mar 18, 2011, 06:26 AM
(#2)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
AK unsuited; I will not use the term drawing hand again as what I really meant to say that it has to hit the board in some way to be better than Ace high.

I don't like raising out of the big blind with AK unsuited when there are several callers; off course you dominate A rag but if the rag hits the board then you are dominated.

The German version of this site, Intellipoker, must advocate calling an all in with Ace rag because I see so many German players calling with Ace rag to an all in preflop bet.

I am not an expert on odds or probabilities but the way i see it is this is that if you have AK and the caller an Ace, and any other card, you are a big favourite because of the King kicker. However, the chances of a king coming versus any other card has to be the same since you have to assume that there are three of each left in the deck. If he hits his any other card, then you are behind and the only card that will save you is a King. Time to fold.

The all in out of the big blind leaves it in the lap of the gods, in hindsight maybe a 3x raise would have been better than just the flat call. There are times where you're going to be making all of your choices with it pre-flop, but without post-flop choices, you are extremely limiting your ability to manipulate the odds of the hand past the original statistics.

I am sure Dave will have a much better and fuller analysis of this, and since I am only learning myself, my analysis could be completely off the mark but I am happy to put my own thoughts forward as long as it breeds debate and improves my own understanding.

Thanks

TC
 
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Fri Mar 18, 2011, 10:50 AM
(#3)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by topthecat View Post
The German version of this site, Intellipoker, must advocate calling an all in with Ace rag because I see so many German players calling with Ace rag to an all in preflop bet.

I am not an expert on odds or probabilities but the way i see it is this is that if you have AK and the caller an Ace, and any other card, you are a big favourite because of the King kicker. However, the chances of a king coming versus any other card has to be the same since you have to assume that there are three of each left in the deck. If he hits his any other card, then you are behind and the only card that will save you is a King.
The reason AK is a solid favorite preflop though, is because when neither player improves, the AK wins.

As for this hand, with 16 bb's and 2 limpers, I would have played it the same way if we have fold equity (we should, unless they are stations).

Quote:
The all in out of the big blind leaves it in the lap of the gods, in hindsight maybe a 3x raise would have been better than just the flat call. There are times where you're going to be making all of your choices with it pre-flop, but without post-flop choices, you are extremely limiting your ability to manipulate the odds of the hand past the original statistics.
Consider the counterpoints to this statement. What about the times one of them has Q9 and would have folded to our all in preflop, but now hits a 9 and won't fold? What about the times one of them has AQ and would have called our all in pre, but now will fold when they miss the flop? What about the value of taking it down preflop when both fold to increase our stack by 3.5x (a 21% increase), or the value of folding one of them out, creating dead money in the pot while boosting our equity?

Sure moving in preflop eliminates the ability to manipulate odds post flop. But he is already greatly manipulating the odds in his favor pre. It won't be easy to manipulate them this well post flop in a multiway pot out of position.

Quote:
I am sure Dave will have a much better and fuller analysis of this, and since I am only learning myself, my analysis could be completely off the mark but I am happy to put my own thoughts forward as long as it breeds debate and improves my own understanding.
Thanks TC for getting involved, I think the more that do the better it is for everyone, as we're all still learning (myself included). Personally I don't think I'll ever stop learning.

Dave
 
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Fri Mar 18, 2011, 11:51 AM
(#4)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Thanks Dave,

I understand what you are saying and I do try to take the dynamic of the game and the players at the table into account. I am also finally getting a grip of why this is a good play even if you are ragged out on the hand by multiple callers.

TC
 

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