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PSO League Mid Tourney PreFlop decision

View Poll Results: What's the best PreFlop Decision?
Limp 0 0%
Raise 3BB-4BB 2 12.50%
Shove 13 81.25%
Fold 1 6.25%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

PSO League Mid Tourney PreFlop decision - Sat Mar 19, 2011, 12:11 AM
FullBoatFlop's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 5
So here's a situation I found myself in last nights PSO:

Level IV (50/100) Seat #9 is the button

Seat 1: PhilEatsPoo (1740 in chips)
Seat 2: 4realman (1275 in chips)
Seat 3: e8seabee (1340 in chips)
Seat 4: Doc Mythias (5770 in chips)
Seat 5: lpd 1958 (1355 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 6: moffballz (5570 in chips)
Seat 7: johnnyriver9 (1520 in chips)
Seat 8: FullBoatFlop (1035 in chips)
Seat 9: bbt64 (1735 in chips) is sitting out

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to FullBoatFlop [Jc Jh]

SB: PhilEatsPoo: posts small blind 50
BB: 4realman: posts big blind 100
UTG: e8seabee: folds
UTG+1: Doc Mythias: calls 100
Mid1: lpd 1958: folds
Mid 2: moffballz: folds
Hijack: johnnyriver9: calls 100

So there I am in the cutoff with a decent pair. There are two rather loose limpers in front of me and the button and blinds have been playing rather tight. I have an "M" of less than 7.

What do you think the best course of action would be? Please answer the poll as well as replying with your thoughts.

Last edited by FullBoatFlop; Sat Mar 19, 2011 at 06:37 AM..
Sat Mar 19, 2011, 12:46 AM
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
I like this method of hand analysis. I doubt it would be practical in any of my threads, though. My questions are always so open-ended.
Sat Mar 19, 2011, 09:38 AM
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
I have voted for shove.

There could be a case for a raise especially in the PSO league but Js are so difficult post flop I am inclined to push and you are around 10BB; shove time I think.

If no one calls you take the blinds; if anyone is calling with less than premium cards, your Jacks could hold up. Even against Aces you can flop another Jack. I think I did it three times yesterday. I lost twice against Aces as well though so it does even out. The only worry is the big stack (Doc) calling with Ace Rag or Broadway cards but I would go for it.


It depends... - Sat Mar 19, 2011, 02:30 PM
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,284
Can you live with the early exit if you lose?? If you just want to hold on for minimal points, then you should fold. A 3-4BB raise is almost half your stack, not an option imo. I would be tempted to just call and see what the flop brings, if high cards show up you can get away from the hand without losing your whole stack.

My advice is specific to the Skill League, and the fact that the big stack is probably going to call even if you shove.

Good luck!!
Sat Mar 19, 2011, 02:57 PM
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
MTT: You have 10 BBs and a premium hand. There's already 350 in the pot so you'll increase your stack by 1/3 if everyone folds. And if you get called, you're ahead of everything but AA, KK, QQ, and flipping with AK, AQ, and KQ. Also, you're in late position, and no one has shown real strength. With 1000 chips you can still destroy someone's stack if they call and lose, so you have pretty good fold equity here. You're also likely to get called by a lot of hands you crush, like 10 10 , 99, 88, AJ and AT suited, and better than double up (around 70% of the time). Easy push.

Now, what about in PSO? How bad will a negative here hurt you? Is it in the last week of the month, where you're going for every little +3 you can to maintain your spot? Or is it early enough that a cash can fix you up? Unless it's late in the month and a negative here will ruin your chances overall, I say push.


You really can't make any raise other than all in here. A 3 BB raise would be 1/3 your stack, and you really can't afford to be raise-folding with 10 BBs. Sure, you might last a little longer, but you're gonna lose almost all of your fold equity when your 600 chips can't cause any noticeable damage to the 5k stack. If you were in the blinds you could maybe do something tricky like put in a small raise to build a pot that you plan to push-steal on the flop, but you're going to be last to act on the flop, so you won't be able to shove all in unless it is checked to you.

Just ship it pre and pray.

Last edited by oriholic; Sat Mar 19, 2011 at 03:10 PM..
Sun Mar 20, 2011, 03:06 PM
eLem3nT's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 25
I vote fold, because pocket jacks NEVER WIN!!! but really just push and hope God likes that day.
Sun Mar 20, 2011, 03:21 PM
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,788
the one I'd have been partially worried about with a shove is out.... so I'd shove.
Tue Mar 22, 2011, 12:44 PM
FullBoatFlop's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 5
Thanks for confirming my thoughts on the hand. It did appear to me to be a shoving situation, which is what I did indeed do.

Here's how it played out:

4realman, suddenly becoming a genius after being dealt a big blind special, ridiculed me for making such a play. He went on and on about how it was such a bad move and I was a total donk. I finally told him I would post it in the forum to see what others thought.

I think I've been vindicated.

Got any smartaleck comments now, 4realman?
Tue Mar 22, 2011, 02:29 PM
D&J257's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 29
Look at this maybe it will make you feel better.....I went on tilt this month lost alot of points..Took a break for a few days..And he is my welcome back party..

Tue Mar 22, 2011, 03:19 PM
chrod12's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 3
Originally Posted by D&J257 View Post
Look at this maybe it will make you feel better.....I went on tilt this month lost alot of points..Took a break for a few days..And he is my welcome back party..
I know how that feels. He was probably born in '79. A lot of players do that retarded move and claim it never fails. It fails more often than you think.
You did a lot better than me. I was playing at a cash table last night and raised pocket KINGS only 3BBs because i was in position and payed for it badly. Got beaten by J9. The board also brought all hearts and neither of my kings was heart. Turns out his 9 was a heart and he beat me with that. I would feel a lot better in your shoes believe me.
Tue Mar 22, 2011, 04:25 PM
broahes's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 436
Shove was my vote.. PSO or not. For this stage, everyone limping into this pot tells me they want to improve on the flop in order to go forward with the hand.. this means no one has you beat.. if they did, I believe they would be raising given their chip stacks. The only hand that I can see limping in any of those positions would be AK os.. and if they call you are still ahead by a hair.. no sane player is going to limp in and then call a shove for basically their stack.
My Reply - Sat Mar 26, 2011, 07:09 PM
4realman's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 1
I guess your poll said to shove.
Myself think that it was to early for that but thats me.
I never called you a donk for pushing pre flop
Today I got my pocket Kings cracked by pocket Queen early I raised he pushed
and i called only 2 lose on the river was down to 360 in chips with 800 or so left
and with out tilting or pushing after that finshed 130 ish
I notice either your out quick or run deep whys that
are you just unlucky or over playing
Good luck on the tables

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