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Fifty50s

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Fifty50s - Mon Mar 21, 2011, 05:28 PM
(#1)
Jcrondps's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 147
Hello,

I was wondering what people's opinions are on the Fifty50s with respect to profitability. It seems very difficult to turn a decent profit due to the rake and indiscriminate flippers in the $1.00 tournaments. If you lose one tournament, it can sometimes take 2 or more wins to just break even.

Discuss ...
 
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Mon Mar 21, 2011, 05:53 PM
(#2)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
<---- Indiscriminate flipper.

I think they're very profitable, since I rarely cash for less than $35 (when I cash). So it really doesn't take that long to make up for losses. I do feel as though there are soft times in the day, and not so soft times in the day. When they're soft, they're way profitable. When they're not, then... they're not. Don't try to multitable them during those hours.



Still figuring out when those hours are.
 
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Mon Mar 21, 2011, 06:16 PM
(#3)
Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanickyPoker View Post
<---- Indiscriminate flipper.

I think they're very profitable, since I rarely cash for less than $35 (when I cash).


There is no possible way to earn $35 in a $1.00 game, even if you took every chip since the pool has $10.00 in it. So at what level are you talking?

Think the max I have seen is in the low $3.00 range for the first place winner and a low of 52-cents for the fifth place player. I'm thinking you need to win at least two games for every loss to break even. I'm thinking the biggest appeal is that if you can keep a 2-for-1 win ratio, you'll do fine, though you'll not get rich.

The big thing in my mind is the vpps you earn. If you can grind out a minimum of two a day, you can go active. (2 x 30 days = 60 games x 0.61 vpps = 36.60 vpps) The breakeven point for vpps is 33 games, which is just a little over one game a day. So if you remain profitable, regardless of how nominal the income, you get to go active in the following month for free.
 
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Mon Mar 21, 2011, 06:46 PM
(#4)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
I think Panicky is playing the $21.20's Cairn.

I played 11 of the $1.11's and cashed in 8 (8/11 73% ITM) and for my $12.21 investment saw a return of $14.89,so a profit of $2.68 and a +22% ROI. And only 3 of my 8 cashes were for over $2. I had okay cards at best here,but over an extremely short sample of 11 games that's neither here nor there. What it did show me that the basic strategy in these should be if the cards are coming get it in there and try for a big payout. If they are'nt nit it up and the other players will be more than happy to donk themselves out and get you to the bubble (6 left) at least. Then you just have to find a good spot. I try to just think of a mini-profit game in these in terms of A: It beats a blank,and B: Think of it as buying into my next one at a discount.

I was just trying to get a basic idea of these myself,next month I will most likely use these as my means of obtaining my 20 VPP's for the month. I completely agree with you on that point Cairn,I would much rather get my VPP's in these than grinding at .02/.04 FLHE and .01/.02 and .02/.05 NLHE.
 
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Mon Mar 21, 2011, 07:04 PM
(#5)
Jcrondps's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie Pip View Post
I think Panicky is playing the $21.20's Cairn.

I played 11 of the $1.11's and cashed in 8 (8/11 73% ITM) and for my $12.21 investment saw a return of $14.89,so a profit of $2.68 and a +22% ROI. And only 3 of my 8 cashes were for over $2. I had okay cards at best here,but over an extremely short sample of 11 games that's neither here nor there. What it did show me that the basic strategy in these should be if the cards are coming get it in there and try for a big payout. If they are'nt nit it up and the other players will be more than happy to donk themselves out and get you to the bubble (6 left) at least. Then you just have to find a good spot. I try to just think of a mini-profit game in these in terms of A: It beats a blank,and B: Think of it as buying into my next one at a discount.

I was just trying to get a basic idea of these myself,next month I will most likely use these as my means of obtaining my 20 VPP's for the month. I completely agree with you on that point Cairn,I would much rather get my VPP's in these than grinding at .02/.04 FLHE and .01/.02 and .02/.05 NLHE.
The cards were coming for me last night. However, my kings got busted once by 6's and once by queens. Had some runner runner disasters after flopping trips ... etc.

Maybe it was just a really big downswing but once you're down 4 or 5 buy ins, you're looking at 10ish tournaments to make it up at the lowest stakes.

It's nice to see people posting their opinions. Keep going.
 
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Mon Mar 21, 2011, 07:07 PM
(#6)
Jcrondps's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 147
I agree with Cairn. They are a great way to grind VPPs. Even with a bad downswing, you are never down a ton of money.
 
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Mon Mar 21, 2011, 07:14 PM
(#7)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
The bare minimum you can win is the buy in, because that's what everyone gets, their buy in back (less juice) plus extra money for each additional 100 chips. So in a $1.11 game the min cash is $1 and you lose the juice. I've done it before in the $20 game... Myself and 2 other players got all in on the bubble, I was the middle stack. The big stack busted both of us. As per standard tournament procedure when 2 or more players bust out on the same hand, bust order is determined by who started the hand with more chips. The guy with less chips than me was awarded 6th, and I was awarded 5th. But I had zero chips to change in for money so all I received was a flat $20 back. lol

I've played 68 of these so far, mostly in the $20 and $30 games... I'm in the money 55.9% of the time and am still in profit, albeit the ROI is smaller than I'd like. When my aces start holding up more in line with ev, I expect the numbers to rise. lol But at any rate I believe it is possible to profit in these even winning at less than a 2-1 clip. 68 games is a really small sample size but based on where I'm at I'd think if you could work a 60% ITM clip (1.5-1) you'd be in the profit almost certainly unless you were a chronic min-casher (I'm not, my finishes range the spectrum but I do have payouts well in excess of a normal DoN).
 
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Mon Mar 21, 2011, 07:37 PM
(#8)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
+1 Dave, and I too have the AA bug lost them 3 straight times yesterday they held today though..... but nobody wanted to play lol
 
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Mon Mar 21, 2011, 09:17 PM
(#9)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
The bare minimum you can win is the buy in, because that's what everyone gets, their buy in back (less juice) plus extra money for each additional 100 chips. So in a $1.11 game the min cash is $1 and you lose the juice. I've done it before in the $20 game... Myself and 2 other players got all in on the bubble, I was the middle stack. The big stack busted both of us. As per standard tournament procedure when 2 or more players bust out on the same hand, bust order is determined by who started the hand with more chips. The guy with less chips than me was awarded 6th, and I was awarded 5th. But I had zero chips to change in for money so all I received was a flat $20 back. lol

I've played 68 of these so far, mostly in the $20 and $30 games... I'm in the money 55.9% of the time and am still in profit, albeit the ROI is smaller than I'd like. When my aces start holding up more in line with ev, I expect the numbers to rise. lol But at any rate I believe it is possible to profit in these even winning at less than a 2-1 clip. 68 games is a really small sample size but based on where I'm at I'd think if you could work a 60% ITM clip (1.5-1) you'd be in the profit almost certainly unless you were a chronic min-casher (I'm not, my finishes range the spectrum but I do have payouts well in excess of a normal DoN).

I agree that around a 60-65 ITM % can get you a profit in these if you can get at least a 50/50 split in double ups and better on your investment and smaller cashes. Maybe even 40% there would do it. So I was 3 of my 8 cashes in that strata,so short. But I expect that over a large sample I would be capapable of doing around 50% in that criteria. I also however,think that I can cash 67% of the time in these over the long haul. I'm trying out the $1.11's like I said and when you load them up at these levels it's like 3 guys at least in each one had something better to do,so donks away. In fact 2 of my 3 misses were getting in good against these type of players and getting slapped upside my head by the variance monster.

But yeah,I agree with Dave 100% here,chronic min-cashing WILL NOT get you a worthwhile return here,if any return at all.

And don't shove KK into 99...............
 
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Mon Mar 21, 2011, 11:02 PM
(#10)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,832
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
I'd want to be up it to 70%... there will be some min cashes when you're card dead... but you gotta get chips in the long run to be ++++ ROI. If you only get 60%... then if you hit a variance run, you're in trouble.

Trust me on this, I've played over 200 of them so far.
 
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Mon Mar 21, 2011, 11:22 PM
(#11)
ssuglia's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,393
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie Pip View Post
And don't shove KK into 99...............
It's much better to shove KK into AA, as I did the other night in a $21.20 game.
 
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Mon Mar 21, 2011, 11:42 PM
(#12)
autodafe20's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 142
BronzeStar
Was bored yesterday so I played a $1.11. Came out of it with $3.29 due to a player thinking his AA in hand would beat a straight.
 

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