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Absent player wins pot....

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Absent player wins pot.... - Tue Nov 05, 2002, 06:42 PM
(#1)
Deleted user
Player "x" was absent throughout a PLO satellite.
Down to 4 players, "x" was all-in on their BB, folded to me in the SB and I raised expecting to "get it over with" and win the blinds.
But no, "x"'s hand played and won.

This isn't how it used to be here.

When did it change? Was there an announcement I missed?

After a certain degree of absence, why should an absent player have any rights to win a hand?
Thoughts?

(p.s. no sour grapes here - it made no difference to the final result)

cheers

Glenn
 
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Tue Nov 05, 2002, 07:12 PM
(#2)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
A consequence, intentional or otherwise, of the all-in showdown dealing I presume. At least that is my suspicion since I first encountered it shortly after.
 
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Tue Nov 05, 2002, 08:52 PM
(#3)
Deleted user
An all-in player has always seen the showdown, absent or not.
 
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Tue Nov 05, 2002, 09:20 PM
(#4)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Not according to Gavin. In an e-mail discussion he informed me that when a player is not present for the play of a hand they will be folded at the end no matter what they hold. Only if they were actually seated at some time during the hand would they be allowed to compete.
 
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Tue Nov 05, 2002, 09:44 PM
(#5)
Deleted user
Pretty sure Noodles is right here...it's a bug for sure, but not new.
 
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Tue Nov 05, 2002, 10:09 PM
(#6)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
I know that numerous times before the change to the all-in showdown, when I was up against an absent player blinded all-in their hand was ALWAYS folded. Twice since I have seen the absent player's hand shown and once they were awarded a pot.
 
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Wed Nov 06, 2002, 12:40 AM
(#7)
Deleted user
In any tournament I've ever played in any player who has chips in front of them will have to post the blinds whether they are at the table or not.

If one of those blinds puts that player all in, then that player is entitled to have their hand turned over at the showdown.

If that player has a winner then the proper amount of chips will be pushed to him/her.

I don't see why it should be any different here at PSO.

At least, that's the way I see it.

sarge
 
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Wed Nov 06, 2002, 01:33 AM
(#8)
Deleted user
I had Gavin change it. The reason was this:

Now if you are all in and you time out your hand will be shown down. I think that it is unfair that someone can have chips, time out, get blinded automatically and because they are currently timed out (probably through no fault of their own) they now cannot win the pot.

Before making this decision I tried hard to think of an advantage that someone could gain by being able to win a showdown even if they were absent. I could not find one.

Mark
 
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Wed Nov 06, 2002, 05:49 AM
(#9)
Deleted user
if u are in a live tourney and are not in the seat, you cannot win the hand even if you blinds are in
 
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Wed Nov 06, 2002, 11:51 AM
(#10)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrumpinJoe
Not according to Gavin. In an e-mail discussion he informed me that when a player is not present for the play of a hand they will be folded at the end no matter what they hold. Only if they were actually seated at some time during the hand would they be allowed to compete.
oooh, never realised that. I must have got it mixed up with other sites. Come to think of it, I have never seen an absent all-in hand at PSO win. When the hand was folded at the end without showing, I just assumed they had lost. Happy to see that this has changed.
 
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Wed Nov 06, 2002, 01:05 PM
(#11)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodles
I have never seen an absent all-in hand at PSO win. When the hand was folded at the end without showing, I just assumed they had lost. Happy to see that this has changed.
What happens in a b+m game where a player is totally absent from the beginning?

At PSO it's not uncommon for a player to maybe forget they entered a slow-filling sat. They are slowly blinded down. In a pot-limit game it might get to 3-handed (plus the absentee) and stealing the absentee's blinds is a big issue. For them to win their all-in hand (not difficult in O8 :wink: ) just protracts the irritation.

In fact, with 3 'live' players + an absentee, an astute short-stacked button could damage a short-stacked SB by folding, creating the chance that the all-in absentee BB will win the SB's blind. And know that the very same situation could crop up in a few hands time.

It's all a bit silly now.
 
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Wed Nov 06, 2002, 09:38 PM
(#12)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosita
In fact, with 3 'live' players + an absentee, an astute short-stacked button could damage a short-stacked SB by folding, creating the chance that the all-in absentee BB will win the SB's blind. And know that the very same situation could crop up in a few hands time.
How is this any different than if the absent player were actually at the table? Couldn't you use that same strategy? What does it matter that the player is absent?

There is no advantage or disadvantage in the new scenario on a player's all-in hand. The old method gave advantage to the players who realized that the all-in was absent and therefore knew that they couldn't lose heads up against them.

Ricky Hard
 
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Thu Nov 07, 2002, 12:12 PM
(#13)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Hard
How is this any different than if the absent player were actually at the table? Couldn't you use that same strategy? What does it matter that the player is absent?
Ricky Hard
You're probably right, Ricky.
But it's very different from how it was previously, with precious little notice of the change as far as I can see.
And now the software is giving 'rights' to a player who has never been at the table, and the hassle of dealing with a totally missing player is accentuated. If someone doesn't show up in the entire duration of an event, it's hard for me to see why they should be allowed to win a pot.
But I'm probably miffed at the hassle it caused at the time :wink:
 
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Thu Nov 07, 2002, 03:26 PM
(#14)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosita
But it's very different from how it was previously, with precious little notice of the change as far as I can see.
And now the software is giving 'rights' to a player who has never been at the table, and the hassle of dealing with a totally missing player is accentuated. If someone doesn't show up in the entire duration of an event, it's hard for me to see why they should be allowed to win a pot.
Replace "precious little" with "absolutely no" and you are closer to what happened.

Under the "old" rules if you called the absent BB and checked it down you were awarded the pot. Although I haven't seen it, now what I expect will happen is that unless you raise them out you have to show down the best hand to take an absent players chips.

Although the change is not major, I am surprised that it was made with out at least some type of announcement.
 
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Thu Sep 06, 2007, 07:52 PM
(#15)
V.I.Ulyanov's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 482
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark
I had Gavin change it. The reason was this:

Now if you are all in and you time out your hand will be shown down. I think that it is unfair that someone can have chips, time out, get blinded automatically and because they are currently timed out (probably through no fault of their own) they now cannot win the pot.

Before making this decision I tried hard to think of an advantage that someone could gain by being able to win a showdown even if they were absent. I could not find one.

Mark
 
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Fri Sep 07, 2007, 10:23 AM
(#16)
Deleted user
There are some real money sites where you are considered "All In" if you were in the hand at the flop and were disconnected from the site. The money that you did not bet is not at risk. This protection is often limited by the number of times that it can occur. It allows some security to the people with less than good internet connections, by allowing them to be in the hand until showdown despite an inadvertant disconnection. So far as this goes as stated above, it is a good thing.

However, a few players have used this to their advantage. A player that has access to internet server can create a "network disconnect" at will. In a hand where they have entered and find after the flop that they have a hand that might win but is not likely to, rather than fold the hand, they invoke a disconnect. As a result they reach showdown with the money that they had put into the pot prior to the disconnect. When they win, they have unfairly won the pot because they would have normally folded the pot or would have had to place (risk) more money into the pot in order to see the showdown.
 
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Fri Sep 07, 2007, 10:40 AM
(#17)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by aha12877
if u are in a live tourney and are not in the seat, you cannot win the hand even if you blinds are in
If you are in a live tourney you do not have the risk of internet disconnect or PSO software just closing for no reason.

Linda
 
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Fri Sep 07, 2007, 01:44 PM
(#18)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by zestync
Quote:
Originally Posted by aha12877
if u are in a live tourney and are not in the seat, you cannot win the hand even if you blinds are in
If you are in a live tourney you do not have the risk of internet disconnect or PSO software just closing for no reason.

Linda
This varies casino to casino. You should cekc the rules of the casino to establish what will happen to hands that are blinded out in a tourney. I hav ebeen at casinos where the player aither shows in the first couple of rounds or he is out. I have also seen the chips carried toanothe table as plawers move during a tourney and the chips played for the blinds as they normally would. If there were no raisers (I know, very stupid! You would thing that the last player before the blnds are played would raise but I actually saw where they did not.) the absent player would win the blinds.

So loand and the short of it: check the rules of the game where you play.
 
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Fri Sep 07, 2007, 02:14 PM
(#19)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,335
(Head Trainer)
Anyone please correct me if I'm wrong.

All in protection is not available in tournament play, only cash game play (and usually limited to 2 per day... your mileage may vary depending on the site).

Most sites I'm familiar with do not allow a hand on "post and fold" (usually referred to as "sitting out") to win a showdown. On Stars I believe the hand is killed instantly upon it's turn for action if a player is sitting out. On Full Tilt I believe it's treated like being on check-fold, but will not win the showdown if checked all the way down (I don't think I've ever seen this happen, the active player always bets, so maybe not?)

In live play, the widely accepted rule now is that a hand dealt to an empty seat is dead as soon as all cards are dealt. This has been the TDA rule since the inception of the TDA I believe, and is Rule #8 in their most current update.

Tournament Directors Association New Poker Rules, Feb 23, 2007

8. At Your Seat- A player must be at his or her seat by the time all players have been dealt complete initial hands in order to have a live hand. Players must be at their seat to call time.

Full TDA rules can be found here:

http://www.pokerpages.com/articles/b.../tda-rules.htm

Dave


Head Live Trainer
Check out my Videos

4 Time Bracelet Winner



 
Old
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Fri Sep 07, 2007, 03:35 PM
(#20)
Deleted user
I checked with the following

PS - As you stated above
FT/Ladbrokes/Party - You can win the hand
 

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