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A "What Would You Do?" Thread!

 
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A "What Would You Do?" Thread! - Sun Mar 27, 2011, 08:23 AM
(#1)
tomrankin51's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 242
BronzeStar
Hello everyone

I struggled with my thoughts about how this hand went, so I will offer part of it up so that you can tell me what you would have done. I'll post it in dribs and drabs as the replies come in.

Lets discuss the background : It's early in the Hubble Freeroll, and I have just gotten to the table. In the few hands I've seen, I've deduced that the table is loose, unfortunately for me the loosest and most passive are to my left. Frequently, one raise brings in several in behind. As you would expect, those with the most chips are the most active, but unlike the earlier tables I was on, no-one is that committed that they're willing to put all their chips in pre-flop.

PokerStars Game #59877045847: Tournament #376222895, Freeroll Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) : 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: murunen3 (9240 in chips)
Seat 2: Oborvanec (2650 in chips)
Seat 3: Dimon125 (1335 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 4: angelok12 (2705 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 5: tomrankin51 (3165 in chips)
Seat 6: antriousg13 (7320 in chips)
Seat 7: deyu_24 (7230 in chips)
Seat 8: Vitaliy9811 (7190 in chips)
Seat 9: fox_cioara1 (1455 in chips) is sitting out
Vitaliy9811: posts small blind 15
fox_cioara1: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to tomrankin51 [Jh Ad]
murunen3: calls 30
Oborvanec: folds
Dimon125: folds
angelok12: folds
tomrankin51: raises 90 to 120
antriousg13: calls 120
deyu_24: folds
Vitaliy9811: calls 105
fox_cioara1: folds
murunen3: calls 90
*** FLOP *** [2d Jd 4h]
Vitaliy9811: checks
murunen3: checks
tomrankin51: ?????

What would you do?!

Tom
 
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Sun Mar 27, 2011, 09:44 AM
(#2)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
I bet about 150, you have top pair best kicker, potential for a flush draw... if reraised all in I fold
 
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Sun Mar 27, 2011, 09:47 AM
(#3)
tomrankin51's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 242
BronzeStar
Ah ok interesting...are you saying you would bet so low to probe your opponents?
 
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Sun Mar 27, 2011, 10:08 AM
(#4)
EasyChips4U's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 762
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomrankin51 View Post
Ah ok interesting...are you saying you would bet so low to probe your opponents?
yup... put out the "feeler bet"... if no big raise from antriousg13 and dependent on subsequent actions of 2 checkers (will call dirty double... no hesitation)... (getting ahead of myself now)... see if K or Q turns (and obviously diamonds)... but u still have to proceed wid caution... my concern @ this point is set...

Last edited by EasyChips4U; Sun Mar 27, 2011 at 11:10 AM.. Reason: Add-on
 
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Sun Mar 27, 2011, 10:24 AM
(#5)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomrankin51 View Post
Ah ok interesting...are you saying you would bet so low to probe your opponents?
feeler bet also to control the pot size... I dont want to commit a large portion of my stack and will be happy to take down the pot now if they have nothing... if they simply follow, keeping the pot in my control in my opinion is optimal.. I never like to over bet unless I have the stone cold nuts
 
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Sun Mar 27, 2011, 10:57 AM
(#6)
tomrankin51's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 242
BronzeStar
So far then, people have said an underbet less than half the pot. I see less than half the pot as an invite to my opponent to make a move, or at the very least giving them even better odds to continue. So given my stance...


*** FLOP *** [2d Jd 4h]
Vitaliy9811: checks
murunen3: checks
tomrankin51: bets 260
antriousg13: raises 260 to 520
Vitaliy9811: calls 520
murunen3: folds
tomrankin51: ...?

So, now what?
 
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Sun Mar 27, 2011, 11:31 AM
(#7)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
Depending on history with villain I fold, or flat call here
 
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Sun Mar 27, 2011, 12:00 PM
(#8)
tomrankin51's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 242
BronzeStar
Well, the history wasn't much but I suspected that the re-raiser was repping the Ad. The caller I believed to be fishing as one of the people that called behind raises until he didn't hit anything as I'd seem him do already in a lot of hands. My play was one of getting everyone else to do my betting for me.

To put everyone out of their misery I include the rest of the hand. My view on the turn was that I genuinely had the best hand. The all in didn't really mean anything to me - it would have been very bad luck had he held A5 and with Jacks or better I may have seen a different line from him. I suspected an AK, and I will say that if he had re-raised more than he did then I would have folded. The simple line was that I didn't think they had what they said they had.

I probably should have just shoved on the turn tbh, but I think this is another of those times where my inability to play TPTK correctly get me into loads of trouble.

Conclusions : The most aggressive player shouldn't have played the way he did on the flop or the turn. I wouldn't have re-raised with TPTK and would have let it go to the pre-flop raiser and opener. Same on the turn. Calling the all-in on the river was ridiculous as it was clear he had a flush (albeit the shittiest flush ever).

Mr Flush called behind a pre flop raise and a call with 95s, then called a bet and a re-raise on the flop and turn. He should never have been in this and was given bad odds post-flop, yet stuck around hoping to achieve what he ended up doing.

Though, I actually think we all played this one pretty badly.

*** FLOP *** [2d Jd 4h]
Vitaliy9811: checks
murunen3: checks
tomrankin51: bets 260
antriousg13: raises 260 to 520
angelok12 has returned
Vitaliy9811: calls 520
murunen3: folds
tomrankin51: calls 260
*** TURN *** [2d Jd 4h] [3c]
Vitaliy9811: checks
tomrankin51: bets 1030
antriousg13: raises 1030 to 2060
Vitaliy9811: calls 2060
tomrankin51: raises 465 to 2525 and is all-in
antriousg13: calls 465
Vitaliy9811: calls 465
*** RIVER *** [2d Jd 4h 3c] [Ah]
Vitaliy9811: bets 4025 and is all-in
antriousg13: calls 4025
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Vitaliy9811: shows [5d 9d] (a straight, Ace to Five)
antriousg13: shows [Jc As] (two pair, Aces and Jacks)
Vitaliy9811 collected 8050 from side pot
tomrankin51: shows [Jh Ad] (two pair, Aces and Jacks)
Vitaliy9811 collected 9645 from main pot
tomrankin51 finished the tournament
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 17695 Main pot 9645. Side pot 8050. | Rake 0
Board [2d Jd 4h 3c Ah]
Seat 1: murunen3 folded on the Flop
Seat 2: Oborvanec folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Dimon125 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: angelok12 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: tomrankin51 showed [Jh Ad] and lost with two pair, Aces and Jacks
Seat 6: antriousg13 showed [Jc As] and lost with two pair, Aces and Jacks
Seat 7: deyu_24 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Vitaliy9811 (small blind) showed [5d 9d] and won (17695) with a straight, Ace to Five
Seat 9: fox_cioara1 (big blind) folded before Flop

Last edited by tomrankin51; Sun Mar 27, 2011 at 12:04 PM..
 
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Sun Mar 27, 2011, 01:51 PM
(#9)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
Okay, let's assume the guy with 95 is not a donkey (he makes the call in the SB which is pretty bad).

I rounded down to 500 to make the calculations easier. Basically a bunch of half-pot bets and minraises, so it's consistent...

Okay, so there's about 500 in the pot. You bet 250 and get min-raised to 500. There's now 750 in the pot. You can't fold to the minraise**, so your 500 is going in too for sure. So now there's 1500 in the pot and the guy has a flush draw (and backdoor straight). That's 3 to 1 odds. Especially with his big stack and the raiser's big stack, he's making this call. His implied odds are pretty huge. When the turn brings him an open ended straight draw, you better believe he'll take it all the way. At this point there's 2000 in the pot.

Now you gotta be thinking to yourself, what could those two have? You have 2500 chips and there's 2000 in the pot. Your only choices are all in or check/fold. Your hand is not strong enough to try to get callers, and if you try to check-raise all in, you will definitely get called. You will likely build a huge pot this way.

You have to keep in mind that in addition to expressed pot odds there are also implied odds. The idea is that you can call to see a draw that needs say 5 to 1 odds, but you're only getting maybe 3 to 1 if you think you can win your opponent's deep stack. The presence of two 7000 chip stacks in this hand creates some nice implied odds for those guys. This is why people will still call draws without proper odds, and why it's called charging them to draw. Most of the time they miss, and you bet at them like you're the house in roulette so they are losing money everytime they draw...unless they hit it big. If your raise is all in and they're getting bad odds to call, then there are no implied odds, so they are losing money overall. When they hit, while it KOs you, it is not enough to pay for when they miss.

Hope that helps.

You know, this is a Hubble freeroll. There are a ton of them. Lots of loose players. Just get the money in and you'll be called by worse.

**But you can reraise!
 
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Sun Mar 27, 2011, 02:37 PM
(#10)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
BronzeStar
You had 100BB. Just fold AJ in middle position! It wasn't even suited... not that it matters. Your deep stacked, only play premium hands out of position. If it was folded to you on the button you could atleast consider playing AJo then, but still a fold would be ok.
 

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