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Cheating - Wed Mar 30, 2011, 06:52 PM
(#1)
pokerstar671's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,206
Can someone explain to me why pokerstars allows players to use programs that keep a full record of players at their table? Im talking about HUD's. Isnt this cheating? I feel that these players have an unfair advantage over alot of players. The reason why I say this is because in a real life poker game dont you have to memorize those things that you see on the table theres no program there to keep track of every hand you see someone play or how they play it is there? Does anyone else feel this way? I feel like im being cheated especially in pso where you see the same players every single day. Should this be stopped? Why is this allowed? And I feel that this is straight up cheating...
 
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Wed Mar 30, 2011, 06:55 PM
(#2)
JT_Sooooted's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,407
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerstar671 View Post
Can someone explain to me why pokerstars allows players to use programs that keep a full record of players at their table? Im talking about HUD's. Isnt this cheating? I feel that these players have an unfair advantage over alot of players. The reason why I say this is because in a real life poker game dont you have to memorize those things that you see on the table theres no program there to keep track of every hand you see someone play or how they play it is there? Does anyone else feel this way? I feel like im being cheated especially in pso where you see the same players every single day. Should this be stopped? Why is this allowed? And I feel that this is straight up cheating...
Email your thoughts to support@pokerstars.com

GL
JT
 
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Wed Mar 30, 2011, 09:35 PM
(#3)
Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
BronzeStar
Like you, I'm yet to go with one of these programs. The reason it is not considered cheating is that players can amass this data offline through other means. Yes, it would be a lot of work, but you could have a "play book" in front of your computer with notes about players and their betting tendencies. All these programs do is what you could do with pencil and paper.

These programs do not tell you when to bet, which makes them legal. They do not share information about another player's cards during play, so you have no advantage.

You are right that such aides are unavailable to the live player, but a live player should be learning these things from observation. And let us not kid ourselves, those professional poker players have a staff providing assistance during breaks. These programs do the same.

Do I feel at a disadvantage for not having one? Sometimes, but not enough to go buying one. I may eventually, but not right now.
 
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Wed Mar 30, 2011, 09:51 PM
(#4)
FaCeK1cKeR's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 223
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http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/prohibited/
 
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Wed Mar 30, 2011, 10:38 PM
(#5)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
BronzeStar
It is not humanly possible for a person playing 24 cash tables to gather and record the same volume of information at the same level of accuracy. IMPOSSIBLE. Therefore, HUD programs allow you to accomplish something that a normal player without a HUD cannot. Cheating, plain and simple. You really can't argue with this logic, it is 100% clear cut.

Regardless of how obvious the truth is, IT IS ALLOWED (specific software is, some is not). The quality of the game is degraded whenever cheating is allowed. Everyone should fight the use of HUDS.... but here is where the real problem is: Pokerstars probably can't stop everyone from using real time tracking software. It is a war they can't win, so the only option is to give up the fight and allow it.

(The second paragraph is more my personal view on the situation. The first paragraph is factual...)
 
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Wed Mar 30, 2011, 10:44 PM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,473
(Head Trainer)
NOT cheating.

They record and provide only the information you're entitled to just like if you played live in the casino and had a photographic memory (also not cheating).

If anything one could argue the photographic memory is MORE unfair, because only a select few have it and those who do not, can not. PokerTracker or Hold'em manager is available to all.

Dave

(PS- if anyone knows where I can purhcase a photographic memory that would be super cool lol)
 
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Wed Mar 30, 2011, 10:47 PM
(#7)
AlphaAero's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 389
BronzeStar
get a free 60 day trial, and if it pays for itself, then buy it, if it does not, don't buy it.

you have that option
 
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Wed Mar 30, 2011, 11:25 PM
(#8)
mcrissinger's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,650
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
NOT cheating.

They record and provide only the information you're entitled to just like if you played live in the casino and had a photographic memory (also not cheating).

If anything one could argue the photographic memory is MORE unfair, because only a select few have it and those who do not, can not. PokerTracker or Hold'em manager is available to all.

Dave

(PS- if anyone knows where I can purhcase a photographic memory that would be super cool lol)
Nano-tech is on the way. Just stick around for another 20-40 years and I think we'll be close.
 
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Wed Mar 30, 2011, 11:39 PM
(#9)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,783
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Dave... I knew there had to be a reason I'm normally better at live games....

and no, mine is not for sale
 
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Wed Mar 30, 2011, 11:46 PM
(#10)
tazz864's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,143
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
NOT cheating.


Dave

(PS- if anyone knows where I can purhcase a photographic memory that would be super cool lol)
I know, but I forgot...

Im just sayin...
 
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Thu Mar 31, 2011, 01:39 AM
(#11)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cairn Destop View Post
Like you, I'm yet to go with one of these programs. The reason it is not considered cheating is that players can amass this data offline through other means. Yes, it would be a lot of work, but you could have a "play book" in front of your computer with notes about players and their betting tendencies. All these programs do is what you could do with pencil and paper.

These programs do not tell you when to bet, which makes them legal. They do not share information about another player's cards during play, so you have no advantage.

You are right that such aides are unavailable to the live player, but a live player should be learning these things from observation. And let us not kid ourselves, those professional poker players have a staff providing assistance during breaks. These programs do the same.

Do I feel at a disadvantage for not having one? Sometimes, but not enough to go buying one. I may eventually, but not right now.

Like AA said in this post Cairn,get the 60 day free trial of PT3 and give it a test drive. If nothing else I know you would dig the analysis features of your own hands.

FYI,you can download the NLHE and the Omaha 60 days free trials both,even at the same time.
 
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Thu Mar 31, 2011, 11:50 AM
(#12)
pokerstar671's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,206
Well Ive been reading around on the net and it seems every ones using these. I guess ill give in and get the free trial once I have read more about how to use the software. Probably would be pointless getting the trial version and not knowing how to use it right. Anyways also Ive read that some players are able to disconnect you in the middle of hand thats why its important to use anti-virus software does anyone know about this?
 
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Thu Mar 31, 2011, 01:02 PM
(#13)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,473
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerstar671 View Post
Anyways also Ive read that some players are able to disconnect you in the middle of hand thats why its important to use anti-virus software does anyone know about this?
I've never heard anything like this, and find it highly suspect unless your personal machine is hacked. Maybe someone far more knowledgable than I in these matters will reply on the likelihood of this even being possible. Sounds like a tin foil hat issue to me though tbh.
 
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Thu Mar 31, 2011, 01:16 PM
(#14)
ssuglia's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,393
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
I've never heard anything like this, and find it highly suspect unless your personal machine is hacked. Maybe someone far more knowledgable than I in these matters will reply on the likelihood of this even being possible. Sounds like a tin foil hat issue to me though tbh.
If it was found on the interwebz, it must be true!
 
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Thu Mar 31, 2011, 01:20 PM
(#15)
ssuglia's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,393
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerstar671 View Post
Can someone explain to me why pokerstars allows players to use programs that keep a full record of players at their table? Im talking about HUD's. Isnt this cheating? I feel that these players have an unfair advantage over alot of players. The reason why I say this is because in a real life poker game dont you have to memorize those things that you see on the table theres no program there to keep track of every hand you see someone play or how they play it is there? Does anyone else feel this way? I feel like im being cheated especially in pso where you see the same players every single day. Should this be stopped? Why is this allowed? And I feel that this is straight up cheating...
It's not cheating when the programs are available to everyone.

Anyone can download a free trial, and after the trial period have the option of purchasing it.

Since these programs are available to everyone who plays poker on a computer, there is no unfair advantage.
 

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