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Closing Threads? Explanation Please.

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Closing Threads? Explanation Please. - Sun Apr 03, 2011, 09:37 AM
(#1)
Annunaki76's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 42
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I have noticed that two threads have been closed recently. I thought that they were both valid issues, and things that are important to the PSO community. It seems that the only justification is that they contained posts critical of PSO and PokerStars operations.
I am upset that instead of keeping such threads open and taking notes from members/customers legitimate grievances and working to improve their site, the PSO Admins only close these threads.
I would like an explanation as to why this is done please. Are you making this choice because you personally feel that your job description is to police for negativity, or is it a directive that you stamp out dissent against the way things are done?
Thank you.
 
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Sun Apr 03, 2011, 10:03 AM
(#2)
ericnnancy's Avatar
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Posts: 977
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Threads are closed for many reasons. Yes, constructive arguments are good, however, a lot of times these turn into personal wars and get out of hand. You can make suggestions without insulting the Staff of PSO or the way Pokerstars is run. Also, when the answer is given and then someone doesn't like the answer they are given, they tend to insult the player that gave them the answer. Then this turns into insults to the player and that is not needed here either. For example, you may notice that I just closed another thread. The reason being is that the owner of the thread said that he was done with the thread and then players started going after certain individuals in the thread. This turns into a flaming war between two players and then others jump in making it an all out war on the thread. People walk the lines sometimes, so the thread stays open, and then when the line is crossed, it has to be closed.

I hope this helps.
 
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Sun Apr 03, 2011, 10:05 AM
(#3)
Mmmm Fish's Avatar
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Posts: 705
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I've requested an explanation also (via PM).

My hope would be the mods would post their explanation here, but I am not will to take a prop bet that they will.
 
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Sun Apr 03, 2011, 10:07 AM
(#4)
ericnnancy's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmmm Fish View Post
I've requested an explanation also (via PM).

My hope would be the mods would post their explanation here, but I am not will to take a prop bet that they will.
Fish..read above
 
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Sun Apr 03, 2011, 10:21 AM
(#5)
Mmmm Fish's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnnancy View Post
Fish..read above
Yeah, our threads crossed. I was typing mine as you were submitting yours. lol.

I forwarded to you the PM I sent out last night. I understand your post above, but don't feel it is a
good explanation for what happened last night.

Look forward to hearing back from the three of you after you have all had time to look it over.
 
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Thank you for the explanation - Sun Apr 03, 2011, 10:34 AM
(#6)
Annunaki76's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 42
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I understand the answer that Ericnnancy gave, and I appreciate it. That makes some sense, but wouldn't erasing the posts of the "over the line" messages be better than ending all discussion of a topic?
 
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Sun Apr 03, 2011, 10:49 AM
(#7)
Mmmm Fish's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annunaki76 View Post
I understand the answer that Ericnnancy gave, and I appreciate it. That makes some sense, but wouldn't erasing the posts of the "over the line" messages be better than ending all discussion of a topic?
In the case I am talking about it does not make sense.

1) I did not insult the staff of PSO.
2) I did not insult the way PokerStars is run
3) I do not believe I was out of line with my responses to the personal attacks levied against me.

And to your point Annunaki, the topic still had some discussion left in it.

Anyway, I'll be interested to see what the mods come back with.
 
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Sun Apr 03, 2011, 10:52 AM
(#8)
roomik17's Avatar
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good luck with that one fish
 
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wow - Sun Apr 03, 2011, 11:15 AM
(#9)
monkeyskunk4's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,818
3) I do not believe I was out of line with my responses to the personal attacks levied against me.


Read more: Closing Threads? Explanation Please. - PokerSchoolOnline Forum http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...#ixzz1ITPcA4ta

you publicly announced that you were proud of finishing last on purpose-- no one attack you- dude-- you hung yourself-- want more bullets???
 
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Sun Apr 03, 2011, 11:25 AM
(#10)
Mmmm Fish's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 705
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Okay.

So now this post is off topic. Annunaki76's question and my questions still stand. But, I am not allowed to respond to post #9 because that would risk a personal war. Is that correct?
 
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?? - Sun Apr 03, 2011, 11:35 AM
(#11)
monkeyskunk4's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,818
is on topic-- posts are closed when the powers that be feel it deemed to be unconstructive-- your claim is that you did not insult - the PSO, its staff- or pokerstars-- ??

I humbly submit - that losing ON purpose- insults all of the above-- and more-- you are wrong here man-- you know it-!
 
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Sun Apr 03, 2011, 11:54 AM
(#12)
DEMONTIS7's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 209
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Children,,,Children,,,,Please play nice,,,,quit your bitchin
 
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Sun Apr 03, 2011, 11:57 AM
(#13)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmmm Fish View Post
Okay.

So now this post is off topic. Annunaki76's question and my questions still stand. But, I am not allowed to respond to post #9 because that would risk a personal war. Is that correct?
I would say you are not allowed to respond to post 9 by flaming or hurling insults. And that includes innuendo that is likely to incite more of the same. I believe a response that doesn't include flaming or bashing is going to be fine.

Annunaki's question (love the screen name btw Annu ) is a valid one however it's poorly phrased. As stated he believes there are 2 possible reasons for threads getting closed. 1) the mods take it personally, or 2) they have a directive to shut down anything critical of pso or pokerstars.

There have been threads critical of some aspect of PSO (most notably the skill league scoring system and rules for certain promos that have been run) that were highly critical of the way pso does things, and I don't believe all those threads were shut down and people raising the issues banned. However the tough part is that many make these emotional issues, and when you do that it is very easy to cross the line between constructive dissent and flame warring.

The mods have made it clear on many an occasion that flame warring and insulting others will not be tolerated. Why doesn't every little thing get closed then? They have also made it clear that they do understand these issues carry an emotional charge to them for some they are trying to exercise good judgment in giving some measure of room for discussion. But when threads deteriorate to what would seem to be the point of no return, they're going to pull the trigger and close it. This is a judgment call as to when that should be, and the mods are human and sometimes may make a mistake in that regard, but they're trying their best to do a thankless job, and from what I see (speaking from experience having modded before) they do a pretty good job of it.

Thinking they are directed to silence anything critical against the school or operations is naive. All such threads aren't closed. Those that have been closed, are still there to view. Those that have expressed this dissent (and there are a few regulars in this regard) are still members. None of that would be true under such a directive.

Many a thread has been closed here that degenerated to flame warring having nothing to do with pso or pokerstars, but rather personal flame wars between members. Search for threads by seagull if you need some evidence, I know there's some of those out there.

The mods have made it clear: Flaming and bashing insults will not be tolerated. They don't shut stuff down at the first sign of a possible flame because they understand people get charged up about this stuff and sometimes will express themselves in ways that may come across as flaming. But when a thread seems to have gone out of control with flaming it's going to get closed. The really sad part is that sometimes threads get closed that started as legitimate questions or good discussions (dissentful to the way pso or pstars does things or not). But the blame being laid at the mods door for this is misguided imo... lay the blame on the people who choose to behave like this is a playground in grade school, as it's this behavior that gets the threads closed.

Disclaimer: I am not a mod here, if anything I've said is incorrect I would ask for a mod here to please reply and correct it.
 
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Sun Apr 03, 2011, 12:04 PM
(#14)
Drywallman3's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 277
Well, that pretty much sums it up right there. Well put Dave
- Dry
 
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Sun Apr 03, 2011, 12:17 PM
(#15)
ericnnancy's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 977
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Dave-

You pretty much nailed it right on the head. At least in my case, and I am not speaking for Brian or Joe, being a poker player myself, and in PSO, there are many times when the tempers flare and I understand that things can get said or that someone could fly off the handle. In these cases, we discuss what has happened when we can (we are in seperate time zones and on different life schedules) before we do anything. A lot of times judgment calls have to be made. I made one last night in a thread and told anyone that wanted to vent to PM me. It was not baiting anyone to get them banned, but hey, I would rather take the vent in my PM box instead of having it broadcast across the forum. Out of the numerous people complaining, I only received 1 PM.
 
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Sun Apr 03, 2011, 12:31 PM
(#16)
Mmmm Fish's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post

The mods have made it clear on many an occasion that flame warring and insulting others will not be tolerated. Why doesn't every little thing get closed then? They have also made it clear that they do understand these issues carry an emotional charge to them for some they are trying to exercise good judgment in giving some measure of room for discussion. But when threads deteriorate to what would seem to be the point of no return, they're going to pull the trigger and close it.
Dave, all I’m asking for here is an explanation as to why this particular thread was past the point of no return.

What irritated me was I spent two days thinking about responding to your post. Then I spent the better part of a half hour typing it. I was hopeful you would read posts 41 through 46 and comment on them. If you decide to go back and look at it, please take the individual I mentioned out of post #41. In the first reference substitute him with the top ten. In the second reference substitute him with anyone who is not appreciative of the free money they got.

Let me restate. I am very appreciative of the easy $50 PokerStars served up to me in January. It gave me a chance to get back into the game. If I had to go back in time, I would do it again and I would stall/fold my way into the money. But that still leaves the issue of the group you did not address—the thousands of people who wander into the Skill League with the hopes to play poker. Do we care about them?
 
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?? - Sun Apr 03, 2011, 12:36 PM
(#17)
monkeyskunk4's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,818
What irritated me was I spent two days thinking about responding to your post. Then I spent the better part of a half hour typing it. I was hopeful you would read posts 41 through 46 and comment on them. If you decide to go back and look at it, please take the individual I mentioned out of post #41. In the first reference substitute him with the top ten. In the second reference substitute him with anyone who is not appreciative of the free money they got

Read more: Closing Threads? Explanation Please. - Page 2 - PokerSchoolOnline Forum http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...#ixzz1ITjcaJhu

Fish- above is a premium example why threads get closed- backhanded insults are not lost on the moderators-- this is their job- and they do it well- people are smarter than you give them credit to be !!! good luck------------Monk..

and to be clear-- no one GETS free money-- it is earned !!!!!
 
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Sun Apr 03, 2011, 12:48 PM
(#18)
Mmmm Fish's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyskunk4 View Post
What irritated me was I spent two days thinking about responding to your post. Then I spent the better part of a half hour typing it. I was hopeful you would read posts 41 through 46 and comment on them. If you decide to go back and look at it, please take the individual I mentioned out of post #41. In the first reference substitute him with the top ten. In the second reference substitute him with anyone who is not appreciative of the free money they got

Read more: Closing Threads? Explanation Please. - Page 2 - PokerSchoolOnline Forum http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...#ixzz1ITjcaJhu

Fish- above is a premium example why threads get closed- backhanded insults are not lost on the moderators-- this is their job- and they do it well- people are smarter than you give them credit to be !!! good luck------------Monk..

and to be clear-- no one GETS free money-- it is earned !!!!!
I understand your point Monk. You agree with the decission to close the thread because it was out of control. I think a freeroll is free money--think we should be able to agree to disagree on that.

But, I am interested in Dave's opinion (not yours) on the larger point I tried to make in Post #41. Let me rephrase and do it in a way that is not a "backhanded insult" to you.

The top ten money placers seem to have an unusually low amount of final tables for March. As compared with the main TLB where the top ten have an unusually high number of final tables. Is that an indication that true poker is not being played in the Skill League?

Is it absurd that players have been known to not be appreciative of the cash they get from the skill league and complain that things would be better only if....?
 
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?? - Sun Apr 03, 2011, 01:05 PM
(#19)
monkeyskunk4's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,818
its all good fish- yet please refer to my record-- when i played to win these things-- 7 fts in 1 month--- 4 wins - 19 fts total in 6 months-- not bad eh??-- playin to win in the pso - WILL NOT put you in the top 10-- took 3 months of watchin what the others were doing- and adding it to my way of play-- that being-- succin the clock like a monster-- when short--thats the pso way-- and it works- do i like it no-- but hey-- what u gonna do?-- cheers bro--gl-- monk..
 
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Sun Apr 03, 2011, 01:20 PM
(#20)
Mmmm Fish's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 705
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyskunk4 View Post
its all good fish- yet please refer to my record-- when i played to win these things-- 7 fts in 1 month--- 4 wins - 19 fts total in 6 months-- not bad eh??-- playin to win in the pso - WILL NOT put you in the top 10-- took 3 months of watchin what the others were doing- and adding it to my way of play-- that being-- succin the clock like a monster-- when short--thats the pso way-- and it works- do i like it no-- but hey-- what u gonna do?-- cheers bro--gl-- monk..
That is the point I am trying to make. You CANNOT play good poker and finish high in the skill league.

For months I've listened to the stall/fold top finishers complain about the "shove monkeys". I believe both of these groups make up a small percentage of the 15,000 or so people who play in the league each month.

I respect the league for it's marketing value and I appreciate the fact that PokerStars is splashing around almost $20K each month to shore up the base of the poker food chain pyrimid.

I do not respect the actual poker that is being played in the league and think in some respects it does a disservice to those WhiteStars who are moving from free poker to paid poker.

I think many people take their Sill League results too seriously and that will hurt them in the long run when they go out into the site. I do not take the league seriously and went the opposite direction in March.

I do not think think that I should be tossed out for my behavior. I do not think I did something that was worse than cheating. I am not a child.
 

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