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Pocket Q's in no limit

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Pocket Q's in no limit - Wed Apr 06, 2011, 07:52 PM
(#1)
cjti's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4
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I was in a no limit hold-em tournament. I was the big blind. Everyone dropped except the ninth player he had short stack and went all in. The little blind dropped. I had pocket Q's and my short stack barley covered his. I called he had pocket 10'. After the final flop a 10 came up and I lost. Should I have called or should I have folded? I am thinking I should have dropped because he could of had ks or As. So did I make a bad choice by staying? Thank you
 
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Wed Apr 06, 2011, 07:54 PM
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cjti's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
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I was in a no limit hold-em tournament. I was the big blind. Everyone dropped except the ninth player he had short stack and went all in. The little blind dropped. I had pocket Q's and my short stack barley covered his. I called he had pocket 10'. After the final flop a 10 came up and I lost. Should I have called or should I have folded? I am thinking I should have dropped because he could of had ks or As. So did I make a bad choice by staying? Thank you

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Wed Apr 06, 2011, 07:57 PM
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JagdTiger's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 8
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He had you beat. Should have folded pocket aces pre-flop.
 
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Wed Apr 06, 2011, 07:59 PM
(#4)
PaidInFull6's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 342
QQ on a short stack, I wouldn't fold it. But you need to post a hand history for evaluation.
 
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Wed Apr 06, 2011, 08:27 PM
(#5)
SJCChamp06's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 5
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easy call
 
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Wed Apr 06, 2011, 09:34 PM
(#6)
XXChris123's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,512
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Buy 1000 decks of cards
deal the exact same hole cards 1000 times
each time have each player bet $100
in fact you take TT I will take QQ
deal it out 1000 times you bet 100 each time I give you 2 to 1 calling with $200
after 1000 hands my QQ are golden
QQ over TT is like 80% your favor
so 1000 hands QQ wins 800 times
 
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Wed Apr 06, 2011, 09:59 PM
(#7)
kchold'em15's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 1
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Going with one of the other replies, in that position u have to call. If he does have AA or KK, well that sucks but it happens. You were 80% when the money went in I'll take my chances. Better luck with the ladies next time
 
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Wed Apr 06, 2011, 10:20 PM
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JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjti View Post
I was in a no limit hold-em tournament. I was the big blind. Everyone dropped except the ninth player he had short stack and went all in. The little blind dropped. I had pocket Q's and my short stack barley covered his. I called he had pocket 10'. After the final flop a 10 came up and I lost. Should I have called or should I have folded? I am thinking I should have dropped because he could of had ks or As. So did I make a bad choice by staying? Thank you
The "quality" of your decision is based on a lot of factors. without the hand history, or an idea about how the opponent is playing, it is VERY hard to determine if you should fold here...

BUT:

A late position shover on a short stack is rarely going to hold a hand that QQ will not play well against. If you too are short stacked, this makes your decision relatively "easy", but you really should shove over the top and not just call.

Of course without knowing HOW short you are, and without knowing how tightly/loosely this opponent has been playing, this is all conditional.

For a more detailed analysis, more info is needed.
 
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Wed Apr 06, 2011, 11:28 PM
(#9)
johannfl's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 169
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You may also want to read about some of the other poker theorems better players are aware of.

This one seems relevant to your current question.

Cheers. Johann.


aejones theorem


"Players do not always have as strong a hand as you think they do.
Betting, raising and general aggression is often enough to make your opponent fold.
Whilst there is an element of truth in both of these points, if you go all out betting and raising as the theorem advocates, you are not going to be winning much money. Of course there will be times when you win pots due to your aggression forcing other players to fold, but this style of play is just going to land you in very unfortunate spots time and time again.

Taken literally, the aejones theorem suggests that wild raises and calls are the order of the day at the Texas Hold'em poker tables, and we both know that isn't the case for any successful poker player.

What can you learn from the aejones theorem?
If you take this theorem with an industrial size grain of salt, you might be able to walk away from this article with a slightly improved outlook on the game. If you ignore the disorderliness of the basic theorem, I think that you can actually take two useful things from it:

Your opponent is not always going to have the absolute nuts.
Playing aggressive poker is much better than playing passively.
First of all, understanding that your opponents will not always have the absolute nuts when they are betting into you will serve you well when it comes to analyzing plays and making decisions. Because we never know the exact two cards our opponent holds, it's easy to fear the worst when facing a bet, when the fact of the matter is that our opponent may be just as scared of what we are holding.

The core of the aejones theorem is that players can often give too much credit for what their opponent is holding.

I am not suggesting that you should think that you can always force your opponents to fold with a reraise, but simply to remember that both players in a hand have concerns about what their opponent holds. If you can sensibly take advantage of this mutual caution during play, you might be able to pick up a few extra pots.

Secondly, as you should know, aggressive poker is winning poker. You don't win pots big pots and make opponents fold by playing passively, so always try and play poker with controlled aggression."

Last edited by johannfl; Wed Apr 06, 2011 at 11:37 PM..
 
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Thu Apr 07, 2011, 01:13 AM
(#10)
Fillmore 59's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 131
Player on the button is short stacked. With the hand folded around, he/she could be shoving all-in with a fairly wide range of cards. You can't really put him on a premium hand.

In most cases your pocket QQ should be way ahead of his range. Since it turned out the villain had 10s, your hand was a big pre-flop favorite, over an 80% chance to win.

Bad break, the sucker caught the third ten. It happens. That's just part of the game. Best starting hand can't always win.

Were you right to call? In most situations I would say yes. You were short stacked and very likely had the best hand. That's a good time to get your money into the middle. On the other hand, if you're close to the money in a big tournament or near the bubble in a satellite then I might be inclined to pass. It all depends on the situation.

Short answer to your question: You did not make a bad choice. You just didn't get the result you wanted.
 
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Thu Apr 07, 2011, 01:21 AM
(#11)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,814
(Super-Moderator)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDean View Post
The "quality" of your decision is based on a lot of factors. without the hand history, or an idea about how the opponent is playing, it is VERY hard to determine if you should fold here...

BUT:

A late position shover on a short stack is rarely going to hold a hand that QQ will not play well against. If you too are short stacked, this makes your decision relatively "easy", but you really should shove over the top and not just call.

Of course without knowing HOW short you are, and without knowing how tightly/loosely this opponent has been playing, this is all conditional.

For a more detailed analysis, more info is needed.
I totally agree with JD on this one. A late, short stack shove is more than likely alot worse hand than QQ. I agree with the shove, instead of call.... so you are only against 1 hand and not 2 (making it easier for someone to outdraw you). If you had the hand history, it will really help all of us, as we can give you extra information in the future, based on blinds/stacks, etc.
 
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Thu Apr 07, 2011, 01:28 AM
(#12)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
Usually I would say post the details, hand history if online or stack sizes, blinds, etc if live, but this is one case where it actually doesn't matter, what little info you gave is enough. Short stack open shoves his button, SB folds, we're in the BB with pocket Q's. As others have said his range is going to usually be wide and regardless, QQ will play very well against any reasonable button shoving range of a short stack. The only real question here is how quickly to make the call. I'll go with snap.
 
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Thu Apr 07, 2011, 12:26 PM
(#13)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
Usually I would say post the details, hand history if online or stack sizes, blinds, etc if live, but this is one case where it actually doesn't matter, what little info you gave is enough. Short stack open shoves his button, SB folds, we're in the BB with pocket Q's. As others have said his range is going to usually be wide and regardless, QQ will play very well against any reasonable button shoving range of a short stack. The only real question here is how quickly to make the call. I'll go with snap.
+1 auto snap git it in jam it in his face high 5 screen and say eat it b********
 
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Thu Apr 07, 2011, 06:26 PM
(#14)
beerhoe's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 42
It seems most players, when short stacked, wait for a hand then shove and cross their fingers. For some of those its a pocket pair and for some is Ace anything. The shorter the stack the looser the hole cards typically. QQ should be an easy call. I would probably have slow played the girls in hoping of getting as many limper's in as possible to help pump up the pot and then cussed myself when the ten hit, swear up and down I'll never slow play a premium pair again.....at least for the rest of the game!
 

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