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My 3-bet was called and I missed, now what?

 
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My 3-bet was called and I missed, now what? - Thu Apr 07, 2011, 03:44 PM
(#1)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
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This is a replay of a 5NL cash game, 6max with 5 people sitting down.

Ok so I 3-bet with AKs from the BB after the button raised preflop. If could have looked like a resteal so I wasn't 100% sure what he was calling with. My guess was small to medium pocket pairs most the time, maybe KQs or AQs some of the time. Didn't have much of a read on the guy at this point. He was not noted as being extra aggressive from the button. So, do I give up on the flop or do I barrel away on every street and hope to hit an A or K? I kind of chose the middle ground. Should I c-bet every time considering how strong my preflop reraise was? I kind of felt extra obligated to c-bet since I was out of position.



p.s. If you want to see showdown this hand is in my most recent blog. Please don't check it out until after you share your analysis though!

Thanks!
 
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Thu Apr 07, 2011, 04:24 PM
(#2)
Deleted user
The biggest problem I see in this hand is you put to much in to not stab on the flop if you miss and most people would see that and be more inclined to float and stab on the turn when you check.
So villian could float this but not likely if he is calling a 3bet preflop.

I would put his range very tight 88 -JJ and AT+ preflop.
When he calls the flop I think you can narrow it a tad and knock AT and maybe Aj out of his range.
When he checks behind turn I would Knock JJ and TT out because they dont want to see a Q,K or A hit on the river.So the fact he checks the river would put him on AQ or 88 and 99.
I know thats hard to figure well you are in the hand and its why I review hands after every session to see why I missed things.

If I was villian I would be showing up with a much wider range and most likely attacking your turn weakness.Im really suprised he check behind on the river and did not take advantage of his position.

I dont like the preflop play the more I look at it,it makes your range so small AA,AK,KK,QQ and AQ.IF he has any reads on how you play monsters like AA and KK he can put you on AK or AQ and just sit back and blow it up on the river when you miss.

If you are going to bet preflop 35 cents achieves the same goal and will knock the limper out 8/10.
Your bet sizing is wanting to play for stacks and cooling off on the turn is just asking for some one to steal.

Sorry for the rambling but I think its pretty clear you missed and the only question would be are you calling with Ace high for the villian.Villian for sure missed out on a steal no matter what he has.

Last edited by Deleted user; Thu Apr 07, 2011 at 04:31 PM..
 
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Thu Apr 07, 2011, 04:39 PM
(#3)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
BronzeStar
Thanks cookies, very good analysis. I was ranging him similarly during the hand. Normally in this situation I would 3-bet around 45c-50c, but the limper possibly caused him to increase his raise from 15c to 20c which is why I chose to raise slightly larger than normal and bloated the pot a bit more than I would have liked. I don't mind playing for stacks so much though, that is kind of the plan when I have a premium holding

If he has 99-JJ I just don't see any way of winning this hand when I miss the flop and turn. He might have folded to a big turn bet, or I might have simply got myself stacked.... sucks! Easier if I had a read that he was ultra aggressive on the BB. Think smooth calling is an option here ever?
 
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Thu Apr 07, 2011, 05:52 PM
(#4)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Hi guys,

ranging is not my strong suit but I will give this a go. I am going to say a high pair 10's to K's and that he slowed down because he thought you could have the straight.

I would have been tempted to slow play the AK with the initial raise he made and reevaluate on the flop, probably tactically naive on my part.

I will have a look at the blog and see just how wrong I am.

TC


Update.

Well I was not too far out, which surprises me. It would have been interesting if you had fired again on the turn or river.

The villain is probably a bit like myself and starts imagining all sorts of possibilities when the board gets scary. If I was fired at again holding 9s I would probably fold which is weak and a leak I know.

It would be very interesting to know what others think when your AK does not hit the flop or turn. Do you bet on and hope for an Ace or King or even bet the river if you have hit nothing at all? It would also be good if you could put yourself on the other side of the coin and you had a pocket pair and the guy with AK kept firing the barrels.

TC

Last edited by topthecat; Thu Apr 07, 2011 at 06:03 PM.. Reason: Looked at blog
 
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Thu Apr 07, 2011, 06:10 PM
(#5)
Deleted user
I actually prefer a smooth call but it all depends on your post flop game.Some people get married to a hand(OK,I still tend to do it).
Even if the limper calls behind he usually folds to any bet on the flop and if he calls you just slow down.
 
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Thu Apr 07, 2011, 09:47 PM
(#6)
o0o0AcEo0o0's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 218
BronzeStar
This is a very tough spot that I find myself in more than often. Actually I went busto to a hand similarly like this in the first Storm tourney. There was a limper utg and a Min Raier utg + 1 then it folds to me in small blind. Usually I would re-raise city this spot but the action was just so weird that I decided to smooth call. Except I flopped TPTK and hit trips on the river only to go bust to queens full.

Anyway, back to your hand lol. My style of play totally matches what you did here. I think I would have made every move here that you did all the way to the river. I would have 3betted and cbet that flop, especially because the flop is so dry. The reason I say this is because in 5NL a lot of players will fold to a 3better if he cbets the flop after they hit air. They just give up on the turn card. Second is because even if you cbet and get called he could still have a hand that is second best to yours.

A lot of players will float you in or out of position in 5NL with hands like AJ AQ AT KQ and possibly even KJ or JT. However, when these players float it is usually not with intentions to steal on a later street. They are usually just floating trying to catch. So even if you do cbet and get called you can usually just get it to showdown without having to be stuck in a bad spot with a huge bet in front of you trying to figure out if your AK is good. Just my thoughts, gonna go see what happend in blog.

Ace-
 
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Thu Apr 07, 2011, 11:06 PM
(#7)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockerguyAA View Post
p.s. If you want to see showdown this hand is in my most recent blog. Please don't check it out until after you share your analysis though!

Thanks!
I haven't peaked yet - it felt like they had TT to QQ, maybe even AK, and so they weren't going to fold.

But sometimes people get funny at the 2 penny 5 penny tables - they didn't have something weird like 56s and win on the river, did they?
 
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?? - Thu Apr 07, 2011, 11:27 PM
(#8)
monkeyskunk4's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,818
am curious as why you did not continue with the pre-flop aggression??
 
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Thu Apr 07, 2011, 11:32 PM
(#9)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
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Okay I peaked - too bad the turn card wasn't like a J or Q instead of a 4 (something you could represent with your c-bet) ...
 

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