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The Langolier commitment decisions?

 
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The Langolier commitment decisions? - Sat Apr 09, 2011, 08:05 PM
(#1)
TooCruel's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 33
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Thats what I thought replaying the hand and it was not the only case. The commitment decisions was a very nice session. The 10% warning sign is in my head now Anyway, in this hand I actually fold with 1/3 in the pot. If I believe he is drawing I could shove the turn which I do in some cases. I also believe there is some threshold for shoving turn when the pot is half the average stack or so..
 
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Sat Apr 09, 2011, 08:08 PM
(#2)
TooCruel's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 33
Villain 9/754 hands
 
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Sun Apr 10, 2011, 02:42 AM
(#3)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
First, why are you flatting pre? It's important to define that first to know where you're going with this hand post. What's your plan? What are you ranging the preflop raiser on?

This is one of those spots that could be a fold pre, flat pre, or sometimes even a 3b pre, all dependent on the villain, your image, the players in the blinds...

Preflop raiser check/calls the flop. What are you ranging him on now?

He check/calls the turn. Now what's his range?

He donks the river for a bit less than half your remaining stack despite the flush getting there and a 4 straight... I think you made a good fold.

You may consider checking back the turn for pot control, planning to call a river bet or bet for value yourself if he checks again. Although betting the turn again isn't bad necessarily, depending on how you range him at that point.....
 
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Sun Apr 10, 2011, 05:37 AM
(#4)
TooCruel's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
First, why are you flatting pre? It's important to define that first to know where you're going with this hand post. What's your plan? What are you ranging the preflop raiser on?

This is one of those spots that could be a fold pre, flat pre, or sometimes even a 3b pre, all dependent on the villain, your image, the players in the blinds...

Preflop raiser check/calls the flop. What are you ranging him on now?

He check/calls the turn. Now what's his range?

He donks the river for a bit less than half your remaining stack despite the flush getting there and a 4 straight... I think you made a good fold.

You may consider checking back the turn for pot control, planning to call a river bet or bet for value yourself if he checks again. Although betting the turn again isn't bad necessarily, depending on how you range him at that point.....
I flatten pre to play that hand in position against villain. It is a good hand considering him opening from middle/ate. I could on the flop float and take away on the turn or play it as I did when I hit.

Why not 3bet pre flop? Good question.I'm not sure. dont 3bet that often especially not early in a tournament in order to keep the pot small. I did not have many hands of the villain but I tend to get a bit scared to 3bet when he plays 9/7. Maybe then I should just fold but I still think my hand is good there and I can outplay him in position?

Ranging? Well that is the vital part I guess. On the flop I just think I am ahead. He could well have a flushdraw or a Q or a J, hands like Q10 or KJ. Thwere is also a straight draw which I did not really think of at the time,9/10, AKso, K10s, though these last two hands, especially when diamonds, could also been shoved after my bet.

The turn does not really help him I would say, he checks again so I believe I am still ahead. He could have 9 10 and made a straight but then he would not check call. In that case my river fold is easy. I can never beat him after that cards comes down. Could I have shoved the turn though? You say pot control and check. I say you taking that line also in some of the cash game sessions. I need to print that ne into my head. My thinking is that I am giving him a free cards while he is on a draw. Can I really afford that? I would save myself some chips and I am guessing that you would say I might get the hand to shown down with showdown value, especially when there is a blank on the river? Am I any close?
 
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Sun Apr 10, 2011, 12:31 PM
(#5)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TooCruel View Post
On the flop I just think I am ahead.
Not good enough, this is a pitfall many fall into, putting their opponent on a hand they can beat. It would seem you're ahead, but you can more accurately define that if you range him. What is his range of hands preflop, and what does it become post flop given his actions? You're putting him on possible hands post flop that may not even be in his preflop raising range.

Regarding checking back the turn, yes you're giving a free card when you do this. But this is mitigated by the fact that your hand now looks like a draw and you will induce bluffs on the river when the villain misses, which you will call and pick off. If you're not committed to getting stacks in on the turn (which I think you should not be here), then pot control should be a factor.

Your hand strength is really only good for 2 streets of value, they don't always have to be the flop and turn.
 
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Mon Apr 11, 2011, 03:58 AM
(#6)
TooCruel's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 33
Okay, I see what you mean concerning the ranging. But which hands in his range would he be check calling with then? AKs, AQ, maybe also KQ? or AA, KK and QQ? I could not imaging playing a made hand so weak on such a draw heavy board.

Checking back turn to induce bluff. So I then only call when no diamond comes?

A really good point is the last one. That the hand strength is only good for two streets of value. I just keep betting to get him off his hand thinking he has a weaker hand than I do, or that he will be scared for whatever I might have a throw away his hand.

I first need to develop a better idea of ranges preflop considering someones stats.
Thanks for feedback
 
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Mon Apr 11, 2011, 08:41 AM
(#7)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
I'm so curious about what the villain had

I've seen people play that way with (straight draw, flush draw, 2 overs) but if they had that wouldn't they have wanted to share that with everybody when they hit the royal flush, because we all get so excited when those happen

And anything less like AK (other), 99, TT ... were they getting the right odds to call? AQ, QQ or JJ you'd think they'd raise, wouldn't they? And AJ, KJ wouldn't they fold by the turn?


Last edited by TrustySam; Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 08:44 AM..
 

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