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Tight Aggressive

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Tight Aggressive - Tue Apr 12, 2011, 12:04 PM
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Dozer60's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 20
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Tight aggressive pre flop play is obsolete, superannuated, and erstwhile! The strategy that brings home the bacon is Rags Rule. From my point of view after playing xx tournaments in the Pso, tight aggressive is obsolete. We must change our pre flop philosophy and rewrite the courses in the Pso. We must use pokerstove, not to determine the best hands to play against an early pre flop raise; rather use it to calculate the equity of 72os and 95os. That is where the code is cracked- Eureka finally I see the light! lol, I give up!
 
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Tue Apr 12, 2011, 02:24 PM
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Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
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Your thoughts mirror my recent evaluation of the "Tournament Indicator" software program. I'll copy the pertinent section here:

So what did I learn (from Tournament Indicator)? My play is tight and aggressive, something I alread suspected. My showdown numbers kept bouncing between solid and overplay, which means I must be on the virtual line. I also learned most of my hands, 75%, were classified as groups eight or nine. That sure explains my meager winning percentages.

The biggest surprise? I discovered how successful those players classified as "calling stations," "loose," and "gamblers" are in poker. When it got down to the bubble, or upper 30% in PSO, these players not only had the most chips, but the heaviest representation. This included freerolls, play money games, cash tournaments, and the PSO. It sure rocks your confidence in a tight and patient play.

I don't think it will make me into a river-chaser, and I'll continue being tight. (I hope.) It does give one pause. Just how wide a range one must have in order to succeed. If the professionals advice playing only group one hands in the early position, should players expand it to groups one and two, or should it include group three? Does the late position included everything but group nine?
 
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Tue Apr 12, 2011, 02:29 PM
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IroncladMerc's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 581
Some of those calling stations do seem to have the right idea, just limp in every hand and hope it hits. With a lot of the flops I see and fold my garbage preflop to, they would have hit straights or trips. So go ahead and play those 8-3o, 7-2 hands, sometimes they hit on the flop. Why not just try to see as many cheap flops as possible with ATC? Might as well, because when I get my money in ahead (AA vs AK, AK vs A10, etc), these loose players always hit their outs.
 
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Tue Apr 12, 2011, 02:36 PM
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topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Very interesting on the stats Cairn but in such a small sample it is difficult to make a judgement.

As for the PSO league it appears that the majority of people who are habitually in the top 100 are for the most part tight and aggressive. For every calling station, loose players and gamblers in the top 30% of an individual tourney there are plenty more who got busted out by a tight aggressive player.

And what they lack overall is consistently getting to the top 30%. Some admittedly do, but not very many.

If you keep playing the way you are results will come. That is what I keep telling myself anyway.

Cya at the tables

TC
 
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Tue Apr 12, 2011, 04:08 PM
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Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cairn Destop View Post
Your thoughts mirror my recent evaluation of the "Tournament Indicator" software program. I'll copy the pertinent section here:

So what did I learn (from Tournament Indicator)? My play is tight and aggressive, something I alread suspected. My showdown numbers kept bouncing between solid and overplay, which means I must be on the virtual line. I also learned most of my hands, 75%, were classified as groups eight or nine. That sure explains my meager winning percentages.

The biggest surprise? I discovered how successful those players classified as "calling stations," "loose," and "gamblers" are in poker. When it got down to the bubble, or upper 30% in PSO, these players not only had the most chips, but the heaviest representation. This included freerolls, play money games, cash tournaments, and the PSO. It sure rocks your confidence in a tight and patient play.

I don't think it will make me into a river-chaser, and I'll continue being tight. (I hope.) It does give one pause. Just how wide a range one must have in order to succeed. If the professionals advice playing only group one hands in the early position, should players expand it to groups one and two, or should it include group three? Does the late position included everything but group nine?
Here's what I find vis-a-vis your take on bad players making the top 30% or better in the range of games you were tracking with this software Cairn................

Cross reference it with info from the PSO Leaderboard for the PSO Tourneys,and OPR/Sharkscope and other tracking sites for the cash MTT/SNG plays. I've found two things over and over again when I do this.

1. Almost every game I play on Stars,be it a PSO,a 45/90 man SNG or a cash MTT,whatever,if I make the FT in the SNG's or the cash in PSO or a deep run in MTT the story is always the same--70% of the players are maniac luckboxes,calling stations,just pure donks,a combination of all the above and others,or what have you. Just bad players,period. EVERY time.

2. Then I look them up at what is available to track their past performance and find out that they are playing that deep in their 1 cash of the week,or month for some of these goofballs. And that's when I know that I'm playing it right and they aren't. ANYONE can have a good/great game every once in a while. ANYONE. Being consistent is another story altogether. There will always be a bunch of blind squirrels running around with a mouthful of nuts in anything you play here. Being the squirrel who has a tree full of nuts to go home to,no matter how THAT particular tournament happens to play out,is the much better option to me.
 
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Wed Apr 13, 2011, 12:17 AM
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Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
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First off, I would like to say I agree with the person who said my sample was woefully small, maybe ten games. I am, by no means,saying such things are a rule rather than an exception. I'll also say that in such games as the PSO, all I can attest to are those players seated at my table. Considering the pool, 1500 players, and I'm seeing maybe 40 in the course of a game, my statement can be considered inaccurate.

Still, it did seem like the loose players benefited. Now as was pointed out, that can be a one-game anamoly. Problem is, there are enough anomoly players to sometimes frustrate those attempting to play tighter.

I'm more interested in the grouping distribution. Considering just how many hands I got in that two-day trial, I'm surprised I got past the halfway point. That has to be through tight play. As I said, I'll not chase for the river. Consistent tight will preval, especially in this format.

However, it does give me some thought of playing looser in the initial rounds of the astrology freerolls and the $90K satelites. Most of the times I play so tight that by the time I am about to be blinded out, everyone else has over $10K in chips. I'm usually below 2-times the BB.
 
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Wed Apr 13, 2011, 12:52 AM
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Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Well yeah,in ANY freeroll that isn't PSO (because of the points thing) I'm not at all hesitant to get it in early. You HAVE to gamble in those IMO. Look at how long the odds are to get that ticket in the Astronomers--72 tickets for 9000 runners in the Hubbles for example,less than 1% of the field gets a ducat. The Daily 90k freeroll is even longer odds. You have to be a good little shove monkey with any likely hands early in those.Jam and hope for the best,get to the final 30% or so in those with a decent stack and then you can tuck in and play some poker.

But insofar as cash MTT/SNG plays at the mini-micro levels go ($2 and less,won't comment on anything higher until I play them),I really see no reason to force the action in these. It seems that when I do get a little impatient in them and get aggressive with something out of my normal range (given position,table texture and other factors),THAT'S when I'm about to get a result less than ideal,more than if I just ABC TAG it. You literally,most of the time,can fold 25 hands in a row,open shove from UTG,and STILL get a caller (or 2,Hell 3 even). And they'll call off with weak hands to. Just the nature of the games.
 

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