Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Poker Education & Beginners Questions / Old Hand Analysis Section /

Did I over play QQ?

Did I over play QQ? - Wed Apr 13, 2011, 04:16 PM
doobie818's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 32
PokerStars Game #60777588092: Tournament #379718646, Freeroll Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2011/04/13 13:11:13 MT [2011/04/13 15:11:13 ET]
Table '379718646 99' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Jameswt7 (1500 in chips)
Seat 2: xBearz (1480 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 3: grju9901 (3090 in chips)
Seat 4: vsrules (1500 in chips)
Seat 5: alagwa (1460 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 6: MVD-B.B. (1470 in chips)
Seat 7: doobie818 (1510 in chips)
Seat 8: wordword3192 (2090 in chips)
Seat 9: lisbon roar (4510 in chips)
doobie818: posts small blind 15
wordword3192: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to doobie818 [Qd Qs]
wordword3192 said, "72?"
Jameswt7 said, " lol"
lisbon roar: calls 30
Jameswt7 said, "i hit a freakin full house with that the other day in the big blind"
Jameswt7: folds
xBearz: folds
Jameswt7 said, "and then an ace was there"
Jameswt7 said, "lol"
xBearz has returned
Jameswt7 said, "$$$"
grju9901: calls 30
wordword3192 said, "sweet"
Jameswt7 said, "heck ya i wish i had it recorrded"
vsrules has timed out
vsrules: folds
alagwa: folds
vsrules is sitting out
vsrules has returned
MVD-B.B.: calls 30
doobie818: raises 120 to 150
wordword3192: calls 120
lisbon roar has timed out
lisbon roar: folds
lisbon roar is sitting out
grju9901: folds
lisbon roar has returned
MVD-B.B.: folds
*** FLOP *** [4s 3h Th]
doobie818: bets 273
wordword3192: raises 273 to 546
doobie818: raises 814 to 1360 and is all-in
wordword3192: calls 814
Jameswt7 said, "I bet doctor house would play poker"
*** TURN *** [4s 3h Th] [6d]
*** RIVER *** [4s 3h Th 6d] [2d]
Jameswt7 said, "oh wait he does"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
doobie818: shows [Qd Qs] (a pair of Queens)
wordword3192: shows [7h 5c] (a straight, Three to Seven)
wordword3192 collected 3110 from pot
doobie818 finished the tournament in 1082nd place
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3110 | Rake 0
Board [4s 3h Th 6d 2d]
Seat 1: Jameswt7 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: xBearz folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: grju9901 folded before Flop
Seat 4: vsrules folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: alagwa folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: MVD-B.B. (button) folded before Flop
Seat 7: doobie818 (small blind) showed [Qd Qs] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 8: wordword3192 (big blind) showed [7h 5c] and won (3110) with a straight, Three to Seven
Seat 9: lisbon roar folded before Flop

The thing that irks me the most is I get called an idiot for over valueing QQ in this spot. Did I over value them? Did I do the right thing by shoving, or would it have been better to fold to the min raise? I definately did not put him on 75o, which by the way I was happy to see.
Wed Apr 13, 2011, 07:11 PM
Deleted user
He called your raise preflop with garbage and your allin with a inside draw.
4 outs is all he has to beat you.
You will find people love to try and tilt players when they make the correct play by telling them they did the wrong play.He has about a 16% chance of catching that 6;
Thu Apr 14, 2011, 01:18 AM
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,817
cookies is totally correct. I absolutely 100% agree.
Thu Apr 14, 2011, 03:26 AM
doobie818's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 32
Thank-you for your input guys. I guess it tilted me more than usual. Back at it tomorrow plowing head first thru all the ATC morons that are out there.

Good luck to you.
Thu Apr 14, 2011, 06:20 AM
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145

You lead a perfectly reasonable amount on a flop where you hold an over pair to the board.

On that board, with the preceeding action you have little reason to believe you are behind anything except a flopped set. I say this because AA/KK is likely to re-raise your pre-flop with 2 players, plus the 2 blinds to act afterwards. They ARE there "possibly" of course, but I'd think you'd need info that this person likes to play "tricky" poker for you to lend real creedence to that risk.

T3/T4/34 are really not very likely because of your raise.

This leaves a "range" for your opponent of T/face or Ace, JJ, TT, 99, 88, 77, 66, 55, 44, 33 to CALL (plus AA/KK of course, if he is going to continue his "tricky" play on a drawing board).

His RAISE RANGE of your flop bet could include 33/44/TT/KK/AA, but also could include a wide range of "bluff" and semi-bluff hands he may have entered on in hopes of floating you with his position.

So when he does MIN raise you, he is putting you to the "test".

With 150 in pre-flop, followed by a perfectly acceptable 273 bet on the flop, you've put 423 of your 1510 start stack into the pot, or 28%.

The "rule" says you hardly EVER want to commit 30% to 35% of your stack then FOLD...you'd be far better off risking a fold of the "best" hand prior to reaching that committment point.


Doing everything that is perfectly "reasonable" here with all your bets to this point, you've butted yourself right up against that committment point. The villain then MIN RAISES you...

The thing you should be asking yourself right there is: does he REALLY have what he is representing here (a set or AA/KK)?

With the huge number of draws possible here opening up the ability of the villain to try semi-bluffing you, with the fact he did not exert his "authority" in this pot any earlier, and with the relative strength of your holding, I see absolutely NOTHING "wrong" with you deciding to ship it right there. If he does have the set or over-pair, so be it...if he doesn't he is drawing pretty thinly to beat you (unless he holds A5h/56h/A4h or any 2 way draw).

I'd say this person may have reaosn to "test" you if he held a big stack advantage on you, but he only covers you here by about 500 chips. If you were aware of how close to a committment point you were getting by your bets, then you had every reason to "go" here, and I doubt seriously he had any CLUE about the implications of his min raise for your stack.

If that is the case, the "idiot" here is present: but it isn't the guy who stood on an over pair, and got suck out on by a 4 outter, who was in the pot for 3/4ths his stack on a VERY thin draw.

Last edited by JDean; Thu Apr 14, 2011 at 06:22 AM..

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com