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Question for EVERYONE - Thu Apr 14, 2011, 03:35 AM
(#1)
NoNeedBackUp's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 150
BronzeStar
When do you bet and when do you call?

I'm not asking for semi bluff/pure bluff situation

It's more of "WHY" do you bet and "WHY" you call when you "DO SO"

:/ Theoretic/subjective question and answer expected from participants! I'm curious!
 
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Thu Apr 14, 2011, 03:37 AM
(#2)
NoNeedBackUp's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 150
BronzeStar
I'll start...

when i have enough chips... I'd bet raise call etc and try to induce my opponent to act.

... you can go into more details, if anyone brings up specific situation I'd be more than happy to share my insight.
 
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Thu Apr 14, 2011, 03:39 AM
(#3)
effsea's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,609
l'm not telling,

but when everyone else does, l will update my notes............hiccup

cheers
 
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Thu Apr 14, 2011, 03:44 AM
(#4)
NoNeedBackUp's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 150
BronzeStar
PokerStars Game #60802708457: Tournament #385388341, $0.50+$0.05 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2011/04/14 0:41:49 PT [2011/04/14 3:41:49 ET]
Table '385388341 3' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: mappi25 (1530 in chips)
Seat 2: roket_launch (1520 in chips)
Seat 3: tchrepaha (1255 in chips)
Seat 4: cataursus (4115 in chips)
Seat 5: Dieter51-K. (1415 in chips)
Seat 6: ximik42 (2180 in chips)
Seat 7: audidude12 (3058 in chips)
Seat 8: NoNeedBackUp (1810 in chips)
Seat 9: willisthecat (2402 in chips)
roket_launch: posts small blind 25
tchrepaha: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to NoNeedBackUp [Ks Ts]
cataursus: folds
Dieter51-K.: folds
ximik42: folds
audidude12: folds
NoNeedBackUp: calls 50
willisthecat: calls 50
mappi25: folds
roket_launch: calls 25
tchrepaha: checks
*** FLOP *** [Kc 7c Jd]
roket_launch: bets 125
tchrepaha: folds
NoNeedBackUp: calls 125
willisthecat: calls 125
*** TURN *** [Kc 7c Jd] [8h]
roket_launch: bets 1345 and is all-in
NoNeedBackUp: folds
willisthecat: calls 1345
*** RIVER *** [Kc 7c Jd 8h] [9c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
roket_launch: shows [Qd Kh] (a pair of Kings)
willisthecat: shows [9d Js] (two pair, Jacks and Nines)
willisthecat collected 3265 from pot
roket_launch finished the tournament in 32nd place
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3265 | Rake 0
Board [Kc 7c Jd 8h 9c]
Seat 1: mappi25 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: roket_launch (small blind) showed [Qd Kh] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 3: tchrepaha (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: cataursus folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Dieter51-K. folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: ximik42 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: audidude12 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: NoNeedBackUp folded on the Turn
Seat 9: willisthecat showed [9d Js] and won (3265) with two pair, Jacks and Nines

in this situation... i folded in the middle because...

#1 theres somewhat chance of my kicker being out kicked...

#2 i dont know what button has, a loose callingstation...

bah :P
 
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Thu Apr 14, 2011, 03:50 AM
(#5)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
I think that the general idea behind betting is to do it for value or as a bluff. If you're doing it for value, it's because you range your opponent on worse hands than yours that you think they feel confident enough about to call. So, in other words, if you're betting for value, it's because you've read your opponent as having a weaker hand than yours, but they haven't read that you have a stronger hand than them. If you're betting as a bluff, it's because you range your opponent on better hands than you, but for some reason, you think you have a good chance of getting them to fold. Usually that's because you've played your hand in a way that makes it look strong, or the board makes their range of hands easy to beat.

I think that the idea behind calling is pretty much based on pot odds. If you need to put in 50 cents to win one dollar, than you need to project that you'll win the hand at least one-third of the time. Read some Sklansky for more on pot odds, though. There's a lot.

This is pretty much me repeating what I've read, though. So, this information is by no means accurate or complete. It's just more or less what I think of when I play.
 
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?? - Thu Apr 14, 2011, 08:12 AM
(#6)
monkeyskunk4's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,818
Bet/call --- remember the gap theory- takes a stronger hand to call with/ than it does to raise with-
Are basically 2 reasons for betting-- 1. to protect your hand - and 2. to bloat the pot to get max value--

In the above hand-- imho- limping K10s from the hi jack chair is a leak-- the action is folded to you- so if i am going to open a pot- im raising- but do i want to do that with K10?? only a better hand will call there-- sure you have suited broadway cards and if you flop well may take down a big pot-- yet, with 4 players yet to act behind you- what do you do if any one raises?? pretty much have to fold- the pot is only 75 chips- so not really worth stealing--

I think its to early-- so am probably folding-- and looking for a better spot-- unless of course the table is really weak and i am trying to set a certain table image-- jmo-- hope this helps-- gl - monk...

Last edited by monkeyskunk4; Thu Apr 14, 2011 at 08:28 AM..
 
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Thu Apr 14, 2011, 09:00 AM
(#7)
DEMONTIS7's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 209
BronzeStar
My thoughts, if I was in your situation, would look something like this:
1. KTs,,,,there's 4 villians behind me, it's a 2 gapper, my chip stack is quite average, I have no idea what the next 4 players are holding,

2. What can I expect from this hand, a K high flush? straight possibilities? Tre K?,,,,all long shots
maybe the best i'll get from this is a pair of K.,,,,,,I know there's an A out there somewhere.

3. Will this hand stand on it's own, nope, it's not that strong.

4. ok,,,,time to gamble with this hand,,,,,1st one in, I'm gonna raise. Not because my hand has strength, but mabey a raise will get 2 or 3 of the remaining villians to fold, leaving me to face 2 opp or go heads up w/ 1. If I get reraised,,,,I'll fold. I will not limp into this pot, my hand is not strong enough to go up against 3-4 opp. Raise for sure. ( in reality I would not even play this hand)

5. The worst thing that can happen now is you hit your K on the flop, Now your kinda stuck w/ top pair w/ a not so good kicker. I hate pot odds,,,,their worthless,,,,would you put money into a losing cause because the pot odds are right?,,,,I think not.,,,,that's good $ following bad. Right now I'm not feeling to good about continuing this hand. I'd check the flop.

All in all, your troubles began when you decided to call, first in, w/ 4 opp behind, w/ a mediocre hand, ect.,,,,It only gets worse from there.

That's my humble opinion,,,
>Dem
 
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?? - Thu Apr 14, 2011, 09:38 AM
(#8)
monkeyskunk4's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,818
If you watch the latest LAPT Americas cup on pokerstarstv-- Dennis Phillips gets in trouble with K 10-- mind you its 4 handed-- the the premise is the same- !!!!!
 
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Thu Apr 14, 2011, 09:51 AM
(#9)
DEMONTIS7's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 209
BronzeStar
Actually,,,KT suited or not,,,is not even in my starting hand selection, regardless of position,,,I don't like 2 gappers.
The only time i'd consider playing a hand like this is LP,,,and only if i'm in a gambling mood.
>Dem
 

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