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Poker players take action now!!!!

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Poker players take action now!!!! - Mon Apr 18, 2011, 06:32 PM
(#1)
Nobisquit's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 19
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April 18, 2011



Attention U.S. Online Poker Players:


I was asked to write an article for the PPA on Friday and delivered it to them this weekend.

They have just contacted me in the last 30 minutes to possibly represent them in Washington DC as a mouthpiece, due to my background in teaching, to present the concerns of Poker Players in the Unites States.

Please notify all of your friends from the United States that play online poker of this thread, I desperately need any and all input. Many of you have played longer than me and have more knowledge of online poker.

I need everyone's input and help to ensure the message is delivered perfectly. I don't want to miss a single point that others may have in regards to online poker and I know I can present it on the floor of the Senate, because I've been there and have done it before.

Again, please forward and/or share this thread to anyone and everyone you know and email me or reply to this post with your comments, thank you in advance for your time.

Time is of the essence.

Personal Email Address:
Nobisquit@yahoo.com

Thank you,

Stephen Hobbs
Author, College Professor, Statistician, MBA, SRA, SRPA

Last edited by PSO Admin; Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 12:24 PM..
 
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Mon Apr 18, 2011, 06:40 PM
(#2)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
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Thats awesome Nobis quite the educational pedigree there I am sure you will be fine presenting our concerns
 
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Mon Apr 18, 2011, 08:24 PM
(#3)
TrustySam's Avatar
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Posts: 8,291
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Oooh - I've got some thoughts ... I'm going to try to boil them down a bit, make them concise. Be back in a bit!
 
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Mon Apr 18, 2011, 08:28 PM
(#4)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
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IT COMES DOWN TO WE DON'T NEED A NANNY

GO KINGS

 
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Mon Apr 18, 2011, 08:52 PM
(#5)
MSgtBakes's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 38
Don't know if you've seen it, but, this is the bill currently before the House...

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-1...12hr1174ih.pdf


If the link doesn't work, copy/paste the URL below ito your browser...

"www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112hr1174ih/pdf/BILLS-112hr1174ih.pdf"

Last edited by MSgtBakes; Tue Apr 19, 2011 at 01:44 AM..
 
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Preponderance Test - Mon Apr 18, 2011, 09:00 PM
(#6)
MSgtBakes's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 38
Howard Lederer makes a very compelling arguement for Poker's classification as a game which predoniantly relies on skill vs a game of chance...

http://gpsts.org/poker-a-game-of-skill/
 
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Mon Apr 18, 2011, 09:30 PM
(#7)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Great info Bakes,

Thanks
 
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Talking Points - Mon Apr 18, 2011, 09:34 PM
(#8)
gjschiff's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 58
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Hi, Nobisquit. I am also a member of the PPA and have sent my response to this mess to President Obama, and representatives in both the House and the Senate in my State via the PPA website.

I have a few ideas about being banned from playing the game I love.

1) Opponents state by playing on-line, it allows minors access to be allowed to play. This can be alleviated my licensing and regulation to ensure this will not easily occur, which is something the poker community has been asking for for years. I also firmly believe it is up to parents to properly monitor their minor children's internet activity and usage.

2) Opponents are saying easy access via internet will cause people to become addicted and not be able to stop "gamblilng". I have been playing on-line for three years now with no such problems. I have also participated in several poker forums and read dozens of books and articles on learning how to play poker. I believe most literature, trainings, forums, and the entire poker community I have been involved with preaches the importance of proper bankroll management. I have read about posters that are having these types of problems, and all have been given guidance and advice on how to overcome any problems they may be having, up to and including advice to leave the game. This is akin to saying some people may eat too many candy bars and become fat, so we should ban all candy bars across the country to ensure this does not happen. People in this country should be allowed to freely make their own choices, not be told by a government what is good or not good for them!

3) Opponents have even said online gambling leads to child abuse and alcoholism (on CNBC video in another post here in the forum). This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I personally know of myself and several family members and friends who have played online for years. All are hard working, productive members of society who have not devolved into child beating alcoholics.

4) Opponents say online poker playing leads to anti-social tendencies and people will no longer socialize with anyone. I think learning poker and playing poker is actually quite social. You cannot learn the game well without associating with others, via forums, trainings, reviewing hand histories, etc. Many forums are quite social and discuss many other aspects of life. Most poker players I have met, online or in real life, are usually quite bright and intelligent people with many varied interests in life. Many online players also enjoy playing live games.

5) I feel that poker is a game primarly based on skill. If you want to profitability play poker, much work and study must be put into the game and although luck is a component and the game has its ups and downs, you have to be skilled in multiple areas to be successful in the long run.

So, those are a few things I can think of right now. Good luck on your presentation and representation of us, the American poker players, who would like our basic rights respected and restored.
 
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good luck - Mon Apr 18, 2011, 09:44 PM
(#9)
kings&que639's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 15
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Here is my take on poker online. First we don't need to convince anyone that poker is a skill and not solely a luck game. That has been done. What we need to do is convince congress that there is nothing different between poker online and poker that you find in brick and moter casinos. If it is legal to play poker at your local casino that it should be legal to play poker at your house on the computer. Hope this helps. Let me know if you need anything more. I'm no lawyer but i really enjoy playing poker in all its various forms and places.

Good luck again
 
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Mon Apr 18, 2011, 10:03 PM
(#10)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
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good post from another site

Editorial from a US player after Indictments

by Nutopia » Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:04 pm
Slave as defined by http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slave...
1: a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
2: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence
3: a device (as the printer of a computer) that is directly responsive to another


Modern Slave as defined by this author…
1: a member of a group with the false impression of freedom held in servitude;
2: a person obligated to obey rules and regulations set forth by a small entity without regard for public safety or the group as a whole, instead motivated by pure greed, financial gain and/or power.


The online gambling laws are certainly issues, we Americans, have had valid objections to. Up until now most of us, myself included, have buried our heads in the sand. Other nationalities are watching these turns of events and probably wondering what’s going on. The majority of other nationalities are unaware why Americans are so proud and insist on freedom above all. In fact if we compare what we learned in second grade about the birth of our county to today it’s quite shocking. So here is a brief synopsis…

What would you do if one of the large banks tried to eliminate your currency and replace it with their own? Not only replace it but charge you interest for using it. The same thing happened a long time ago. Once upon a time there once was a rich and powerful man that controlled everything, the King of England. He decided to prohibit citizens from issuing their own currency. Instead he wanted his bank, the Central Bank of England, to issue all currency with interest! The people knew if they allowed that, it would cause untold debt and force them into being subservient to this guy. Let the war begin. Revolutionary that is…

Long story short, we fought and won. Basically we came to a new world to find freedom. Now what? Settle down, ban together and enjoy the good life. These small groups realized they needed a few rules. Something basic like liberty and justice for all... a country was born. Basic services were needed. People were needed to enforce theses new laws, a military to protect freedom, as well as many other services. Those services cost money. So everyone decided to pay a small amount to provide them, taxes. But the wise leaders of this group, our founding forefathers, decided there should be a militia to avoid ever being forced into subservience again. This militia would keep the new government in check and never would we worry of this again.

Fast forward a couple of hundred years or so. That same militia is now viewed legally and socially as a group of dangerous crack pots. That right to bear arms, originating from the need for a militia, has been replaced with the right to bear approved arms for a fee. The freedom to spend this new currency has been replaced by the idea “you can spend it but we want to make as much as we can and it has to be easy for us to collect and monitor” ideology. That sounds a lot like interest on our new currency to me.

“Since there are many legal issues involved in taxing online gambling maybe we should just make spending small amounts for fun illegal”. “Let’s replace that with making much more by requiring all people to risk more than they can afford, charge higher taxes and force the casinos to pay fees to stay open. Sure that’ll work”!

Two hundred years later where are we? Unreasonable taxation, laws and regulations that force citizens to conform for fear of being jailed and stripped of all freedom and rights for life. The government we created has become a group of attorneys pushing papers around for personal gain while smoking expensive cigars and attending $500,000 Cancun “business meetings”. The list goes on but we Americans all know the story. What’s going on? I’m far from being an alarmist or a crazy crack pot. I happen to be the average American that up until a few years ago was proud to be an American and truly felt this was the best country in the world. Myself and many other “normal” Americans, are wondering what’s going on and wonder how we can fix this.

I truly hate to say this but for the first time in my life, I’m embarrassed to be an American!

Who am I hurting if I choose to spend $50 to play a game? The price of an average dinner for one hour! The risk should be mine to take. It’s my money. I haven’t seen our government exposing large sites for cheating or a high occurrence of gambling addicts losing their mortgage payment online. In fact, if this was a problem wouldn’t it make more sense to offer help rather than punish the average person for the failures of a few? I suppose I’m merely ignorant to the issues at hand. I would love to hear some valid reasons as to how this bungling move helps me, the common guy who enjoys a small game after work every now and again.


full thread found here http://www.pokertableratings.com/for...nts-t2335.html
 
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Mon Apr 18, 2011, 10:59 PM
(#11)
Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
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When I worked in a casino, we learned about the rules and regulations guiding money laundrying. Casinos had to report certain cash transactions to the government. If the online sites are willing to employ the same currency transaction oversights, that could go a long way to legitamizing online gaming.

The problem began when the Congress tried blocking the money flow. It only encouraged those who wanted to play to find alternative means of financing. If the impediments were removed, instead of players having to go through unethical means, it could be done directly. Such a direct route leaves a clean trail. Honest players wouldn't object, and the dishonest transactions become highlighted for criminal investigations.

Regarding the concerns of addiction, that is a legitimate concern. However, the sites have done much to help. At PokerStars, there is help offered. One can even have themselves banned from a site if the addiction becomes too strong. It is the same with the casinos. I personally know of several individuals that feared their gaming became too overpowering and had themselves voluntarily banned. Casinos enforce that banning. It might help if PokerStars could provide numbers regarding those directed to gambling addiction sites and those banned due to such an addiction.
 
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Mon Apr 18, 2011, 11:07 PM
(#12)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
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I tried to clarify my thoughts, but they're still kind of a mish-mash of randomness ...

A. The Internet Effect

It's revolutionized the way we communcate and exchange information, expanded access opportunities. Newspapers now compete with online sources, and opinion blogs have allowed everybody to have their opinions heard. Books, music, and movies can be bought and downloaded instantaneously. Families can talk face to face with loved ones on the other side of the world via Skype. And the popular and enduring past-time of poker is now something that can be accessed and played from one's home with people all across the world in addition to at the casinos of Las Vegas, etc. One only needs to log in to a site like Poker Stars to see what a global phenomenon it's become with it being common to see people playing from all around the world at any given time - Canada, Great Britain, Japan, Australia, Russia, Argentina, etc, etc. Stuff maybe non-poker players don't know about poker players is that:

- online you can play for pennies a game, whereas at the casino it's a dollar minimum
- it's very social - wasn't there somebody who posted the other day that he met his wife playing online poker
- it's just a hobby for most of us
- it appeals to a wide range of people

B. Addiction Concerns

Listed under the Congressional findings of UIGEA was reference to The National Gambling Impact Study Commission in 1999 (see 31 U.S.C. § 5361 (a) (2)).

But see Wikipedia - Online Gambling - Problem Gambling (about 4/5 down the page - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_gambling ... study Congress relied upon in 2006 was undercut but later study, British Gambling Prevalence Survey 2007)

C. Debt Collection Problems

Another stated purpose of UIGEA was a concern about debt. But didn't the collapse of the housing market in 2008 show that credit was being given out too easily? If that problem has now been remedied, then does the concern about debt collection problems still exist?

D. "Gambling"

The UIGEA specifically excluded online trading of stocks and derivatives. Has internet poker really been more harmful to society than mortgage-backed securities like collateralized debt obligations?

E. Money Laundering

Poker players would like to see poker legalized so that if ever criminals have used internet poker sites to launder money, they no longer can.

F. Taxes

Poker players would like to see poker legalized so that everybody can pay their fair share of taxes on all earnings.

G. Vegas

Online is fun, but it's not as fun as Vegas
 
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US - Mon Apr 18, 2011, 11:48 PM
(#13)
DougThomas's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 9
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( From Original Post) "They have just contacted me in the last 30 minutes to possibly represent them in Washington DC as a mouthpiece, due to my background in teaching, to present the concerns of Poker Players in the Unites States".

I am also a college professor, I teach Criminology. next time proof read you posts. I play Poker in The United States not the Unites States. If you want perfection you should re-read your posting several times and use SpellChecker.
 
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Tue Apr 19, 2011, 12:00 AM
(#14)
MSgtBakes's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 38
We have support within the government. http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-va...oker-crackdown

What we need to do is expand on that support. We need to help those in government that share our belief by telling their colleagues that disagree why they are wrong. We need every representative from every district to hear from their poker playing constituents that this has to change and fast. Many of those who support a ban on online poker truly do not understand the game nor do they appreciate the number of poker playing voters within their district. Many blindly believe that the majority of Americans support an outright ban on online poker and we have done a poor job in the past of changing that view. WE need to change that. Only WE can. I urge you all again to support the PPA in any way you can. Contact your representatives at all levels State and Federal. Let them know that we do not intend to fold!

Last edited by MSgtBakes; Tue Apr 19, 2011 at 12:21 AM..
 
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Tue Apr 19, 2011, 12:27 AM
(#15)
bassnbrad's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougThomas View Post
( From Original Post) "They have just contacted me in the last 30 minutes to possibly represent them in Washington DC as a mouthpiece, due to my background in teaching, to present the concerns of Poker Players in the Unites States".

I am also a college professor, I teach Criminology. next time proof read you posts. I play Poker in The United States not the Unites States. If you want perfection you should re-read your posting several times and use SpellChecker.
I'm no college professor, yet it seems to me that someone who takes the time to respond to an individual who's requesting others help with information and knowledge by pointing to a single flaw of miss-spelling is either extremely a.n.a.l. or just a plain ass. IMO, and I may be wrong, it seems he wrote this piece in haste, probably did reread it and the incorrect letter probably went unobserved. Spellcheck would not have caught it, and considering the (d) and (s) are next to each other on the qwerty board was probably just a slip of his left index finger.... He is probably quite excited and fearful of the proposition of representing and speaking on the behalf of so many. Instead of degrading his typing skills how about a sensible response to the question at hand. If that is beyond your grasp then how about a simple "Good luck" professor.

Wow, now that's just a novel idea huh?

GL Nobisquit,
bb
 
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Tue Apr 19, 2011, 12:38 AM
(#16)
werbiefitz's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougThomas View Post
( From Original Post) "They have just contacted me in the last 30 minutes to possibly represent them in Washington DC as a mouthpiece, due to my background in teaching, to present the concerns of Poker Players in the Unites States".

I am also a college professor, I teach Criminology. next time proof read you posts. I play Poker in The United States not the Unites States. If you want perfection you should re-read your posting several times and use SpellChecker.

I'm not a college professor - only a lowly elementary school teacher. However, when you correct the errors that others make, you'd do well to proof read your own posting. "I am a college professor" and "I teach Criminology" are two independent thoughts that need more than a comma between them. "next" needs to be capitalized - it starts a new sentence. Poker is not a proper noun so it is not capitalized and "SpellChecker" is two words and again, it is not a proper noun.

I am at a loss to explain how your post helps the cause of making online poker legal in the United States. Perhaps all our time would be better spent supporting that than commenting on an error or two in someone's post.
 
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Tue Apr 19, 2011, 12:51 AM
(#17)
werbiefitz's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 6
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This is important information that everyone needs to read and then encourage their congressmen to support. I'm proud to be from the state of one of the sponsar's of the bill!
 
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Tue Apr 19, 2011, 12:53 AM
(#18)
werbiefitz's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by werbiefitz View Post
This is important information that everyone needs to read and then encourage their congressmen to support. I'm proud to be from the state of one of the sponsar's of the bill!

missed this:http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-1...12hr1174ih.pdf

The link from MSgtBakes posting...

Last edited by werbiefitz; Tue Apr 19, 2011 at 01:42 AM..
 
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Tue Apr 19, 2011, 01:05 AM
(#19)
Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
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Is it just me, or does anyone else get an error message when trying to access the link?


And best of luck to you sir.
 
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Tue Apr 19, 2011, 01:11 AM
(#20)
mcrissinger's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by werbiefitz View Post
I'm not a college professor - only a lowly elementary school teacher. However, when you correct the errors that others make, you'd do well to proof read your own posting. "I am a college professor" and "I teach Criminology" are two independent thoughts that need more than a comma between them. "next" needs to be capitalized - it starts a new sentence. Poker is not a proper noun so it is not capitalized and "SpellChecker" is two words and again, it is not a proper noun.

I am at a loss to explain how your post helps the cause of making online poker legal in the United States. Perhaps all our time would be better spent supporting that than commenting on an error or two in someone's post.
Best thing I've seen posted here since this past Friday.

+1.

Best of luck teaching the kids.
 

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