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Response to TC

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Response to TC - Tue Apr 19, 2011, 01:16 AM
(#1)
VareckRay's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 182
I wanted to address just one point here TC

It is my opinion that many players in PSO are not that good at poker, even many of the highly ranked ones. This is based on my own observations and experiences playing in the PSO league

If I can outplay a very large number of players here they can't be because I'm not that good. I do mean outplay, not out-wait. You seem to intent on turning that into some kind of insult, it isn't. We are all learning here it is a poker school after all. And whilst some of us prefer to try to play poker more successfully, others are content to sit and run the clock to accumulate points. That's up to the individual of course. I don't mind because what I've learnt at PSO allows me to take the chips from those sitting and waiting. Does that make me a better poker player? I don't know but it makes me a more successful league player, look at my rankings for the previous 2 months and you will see what I mean, both 990ish.

I thought I ought to point this out because how you choose to interpret what I say is quite a way off the mark. Your obvious attempts to undermine what I say by turning what I've said into something much more critical than intended is pretty transparent.

You say QED, I say read what I say properly and you just might get it.

TBC

Last edited by VareckRay; Tue Apr 19, 2011 at 01:47 AM..
 
Old
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Tue Apr 19, 2011, 09:27 AM
(#2)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Hello Ray,

I am not trying to interpret what you say. I am just openly expressing the opinion, that what you say is arrogant and a little patronising to the highly ranked players that you classify as actually not that good and I quote.

Quote:
“Other peoples exact standings in the league are kind of irrelevant, to me anyway - not least because many of the people who are highly ranked aren't actually that good. They are great at runing the clock but little more from what I have seen. Not all of course but a large percentage.”
You are under the illusion Ray that trying to player “poker successfully” (whatever that means) is the objective of the league. It irks you that others are trying to accumulate points to win money and use slow play tactics and cautiousness. And this is the crux Ray, in your mind you are playing poker but your opponents are not playing poker with you they are playing the system. That being the case how can you determine whether they are a skilful poker player or not?

Now you say that you can outplay a large number of these types of players. Do you mean outplay in one hand, a number of hands, one tourney or the whole league? If they finish above you Ray and make more money, then I am afraid that they have outplayed you.

I will agree that some deploy this tactic more successfully than others but it is highly likely that using this system of play will improve the ranking of even the weakest of players. And that’s all it is Ray, a system to take advantage of the scoring anomalies of the league.

Let me give you a few hypothetical scenarios. 5th level of a 10$ buy in tourney. I am on the button to your left, having played TAG. Three players call the big blind, you wake with a pair of 4s, you raise, I three bet you, and everyone folds to you. What do you do? Normally you fold off course. Why because I had Aces?

Apply this scenario to PSO. If I three bet my Aces, the big blind calls, three others call and you call. My Aces have suddenly gone down in value dramatically. Dry board comes and everyone checks and I raise, everyone calls. Everyone checks the turn, I check. River comes a four. You raise, I fold. Maybe you outplayed me, maybe not, but in a real tournament, there would rarely have been five callers. In PSO, level five, the majority are limping or calling, no matter what the raise, and if I want to conserve my stack and get to the money I have to choose positions where the likelihood of being donked out are minimised.

So you are entitled to your opinion Ray, but using games in the League as a yardstick to whether a player is good or not is in my opinion misguided. I think you are the one that has to remove the blinkers, Ray, I am not trying to undermine what you say, or make it sound more critical, I am just saying that your are wrong!

A lot of these players have Home Games and I am sure that they would be more than happy to invite you to participate in some real money tournies and maybe then you can make a true value judgement as to whether they are good poker players or not.

GL on the felt,

TC

Last edited by topthecat; Tue Apr 19, 2011 at 09:40 AM..
 
Old
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Tue Apr 19, 2011, 10:02 AM
(#3)
VareckRay's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 182
"You are under the illusion Ray that trying to player “poker successfully” (whatever that means) is the objective of the league. It irks you that others are trying to accumulate points to win money and use slow play tactics and cautiousness. And this is the crux Ray, in your mind you are playing poker but your opponents are not playing poker with you they are playing the system. That being the case how can you determine whether they are a skilful poker player or not?"

lol you really do assume a lot don't you bud. I really don't care what others do, if they want to sit out most hands that really is fine by me. My poker has improved more than I can say since I've joined PSO and it isn't as a result of sitting out of every hand. I've always believed each to their own and in poker it is no different.

I'm not bothered about the money on offer here or whether or not people are playing the system to get a higher league placing. I am only interested in 2 things - improving my poker and being part of a friendly community. That is all.

It obviously bothers you that others think you can't play poker because you only play 2 or 3 hands a tourney. Don't try to project that insecurity on to me my friend.

But I'm getting bored of arguing with someone who can't see outside his ltttle box (and keeps changing the subject, remember this was originally about unreasonable demands on PSO staff?) so why not put it to the test? Here is a challenge for you. You pick your top 8 players and see if you can get them to join a home game. You can choose anyone from the league including yourself. Invite me also and we can see who can play poker and who can't.

Obviously it will have to be a play money game if there are any US based players. 1 game people can get lucky 3 games should even it out but I will go for 1 if thats suits you better. You choose the format as long as it's NL.

You game?


Last edited by VareckRay; Tue Apr 19, 2011 at 10:14 AM..
 
Old
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Tue Apr 19, 2011, 10:10 AM
(#4)
effsea's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,609
hey guys,

l have 2 clubs now, one is full, the other one is for peeps that can still play for cash, if you two want in, l will send you an invite, we play every friday night, let me know

cheers
 
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Tue Apr 19, 2011, 11:11 AM
(#5)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Oh I am game. count me in effsea, thanks, and send me the details.

TC
 
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Tue Apr 19, 2011, 11:30 AM
(#6)
dmarns's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 4
If only Pres were here to provide a unique perspective on the situation.

I tend the enjoy the words of those who are laughably ignorant moreso than those embarrassingly so.

Enjoy your intellectual squabble.
 
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Tue Apr 19, 2011, 11:31 AM
(#7)
VareckRay's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by effsea View Post
hey guys,

l have 2 clubs now, one is full, the other one is for peeps that can still play for cash, if you two want in, l will send you an invite, we play every friday night, let me know

cheers

Cool effsea, thanks for the invite.

See you Friday
 
Old
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Tue Apr 19, 2011, 11:54 AM
(#8)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Quote:
I've always believed each to their own and in poker it is no different.
Well there is something that we agree on.

Quote:
I'm not bothered about the money on offer here
Bully for you Ray. That is sure one way to develop a winning mindset

Quote:
It obviously bothers you that others think you can't play poker because you only play 2 or 3 hands a tourney. Don't try to project that insecurity on to me my friend.
I never mentioned what others think of me, only what you think of other highly ranked players close to you in the standings who use this approach. I finished in the top 200 or so last month using my standard way of playing and I was unable to play for over a week. I changed my approach this month because I was selected for darkman's team and agreed to use a method that he has used successfully to finish in the top 100 every month. Off course I do not apply this method in ring games or sitngos or even freeroll tournies but the patience it has instilled in me has improved my overall game.

Quote:
But I'm getting bored of arguing with someone who can't see outside his ltttle box (and keeps changing the subject, remember this was originally about unreasonable demands on PSO staff?)
There you go again Ray, distorting the facts when you have painted yourself into a corner. The original thread was about league updates. You were the individual who made the comment about highly ranked individuals not being good poker players and said that they were being unreasonable because they wanted to know the score. Get your facts right please!!

Quote:
Here is a challenge for you. You pick your top 8 players and see if you can get them to join a home game. You can choose anyone from the league including yourself. Invite me also and we can see who can play poker and who can't.
Oh I don't think I will need to pick highly ranked players (I have not achieved anything that would put me in that category), I think they will be queuing up to play you Ray in Effsea's Home game.

Lets make it 2 cash games, 5.50$ buy in each and 1 play money game. I don't think bounty incentives will be necessary.

I will leave the date and time scheduling to effsea.

See you there,

TC
 
Old
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So Funny! - Tue Apr 19, 2011, 12:01 PM
(#9)
Ace King 61's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 421
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by vareckray View Post
it is my opinion that many players in pso are not that good at poker, even many of the highly ranked ones. this is based on my own observations and experiences playing in the pso league
roflmbfao!!!
 
Old
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Tue Apr 19, 2011, 12:31 PM
(#10)
effsea's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,609
ok, will send invites,


please remember this, in both my clubs we respect the game and it's members, come play and let the cards do the talking for you, GL to you both.

this should be fun.

cheers


update,

my 2nd club is only 2 days old, just getting members signed up now, we have a game scheduled for this friday already, $1.35 buy in.

shorty l will set up 2 more games.

l'm going to start a drunk tank 2 thread in the home games forum

once again cheers

Last edited by effsea; Tue Apr 19, 2011 at 12:50 PM..
 
Old
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Tue Apr 19, 2011, 12:45 PM
(#11)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Ok Effsea,

I meant to add that to my final post anyway cos Ray talks nearly as much as I do. LOL

It will be entertaining if nothing else, I think

TC
 
Old
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Tue Apr 19, 2011, 12:59 PM
(#12)
effsea's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by topthecat View Post
Ok Effsea,

I meant to add that to my final post anyway cos Ray talks nearly as much as I do. LOL

It will be entertaining if nothing else, I think

TC
please talk all you want, just be respectful is all l ask,

game info was sent to both of you , via pm

cheers
 
Old
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Tue Apr 19, 2011, 01:59 PM
(#13)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,517
(Head Trainer)
Will this take place on play money for us players?
 
Old
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Tue Apr 19, 2011, 02:16 PM
(#14)
effsea's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
Will this take place on play money for us players?

dave,

l will set it up so all can play, l'm thinking, 3 free roll games, and 3 cash games,

more info to come soon,

cheers
 
Old
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Tue Apr 19, 2011, 02:23 PM
(#15)
VareckRay's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by effsea View Post
please talk all you want, just be respectful is all l ask,

game info was sent to both of you , via pm

cheers
Absolutely, I intend to let my cards do all the talking

 
Old
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Tue Apr 19, 2011, 02:28 PM
(#16)
ssuglia's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,393
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by effsea View Post
dave,

l will set it up so all can play, l'm thinking, 3 free roll games, and 3 cash games,

more info to come soon,

cheers
Awesome.

hiccup

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 
Old
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Tue Apr 19, 2011, 02:30 PM
(#17)
effsea's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,609
ok,

How does this sound,

l will set up 3 free roll games in the drunk tank,

Also 3 cash games in the new drunk tank 2

should be fun,

cheers

p.s.

tc and ray, l also will make room for you two in the drunk tank for the free roll games

Last edited by effsea; Tue Apr 19, 2011 at 02:34 PM..
 
Old
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Tue Apr 19, 2011, 02:32 PM
(#18)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
Will this take place on play money for us players?
Believe it or not Dave there is talk of ESPN televising the play money games.

TC
 
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Tue Apr 19, 2011, 02:33 PM
(#19)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Sounds a hundred effsea, looking forward to it.

TC
 
Old
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Tue Apr 19, 2011, 03:55 PM
(#20)
effsea's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,609
ok,

Here's what l'm thinking, 6 games total, 3 cash, 3 free rolls, this way our u.s. friends can be a part of this.

Starting this friday,

1st game in the drunk tank 2, Apr.22 - 9:05 est. cash game, $1.35 buy in

game #2 in the drunk tank, Apr.23 - 7:05 est free roll

game $3 in the drunk tank 2, Apr24 - 7:05 cash game, $1.35 buy

game #4 in the drunk tank, Apr 25 - 7:05 free roll

game #5 in the drunk tank 2, Apr 26 - 7:05 cash game $1.35 buy in

game #6 in the drunk tank Apr 27 - 7:05 free roll

lets have some fun with this, l'm hoping to learn something besides folding.....hiccup

cheers all

Last edited by effsea; Tue Apr 19, 2011 at 04:05 PM..
 

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