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22 on the button

 
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22 on the button - Fri Apr 22, 2011, 02:14 PM
(#1)
bashy27's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 57
BronzeStar
ok i'm not sure if this is the right place to put this, if not i appologise.

i was in a tourney at my local casino last night, i had made the final table and we were on the bubble (even though we had all agreed the bubble would be paid) the table was still getting a feel for each other.
blinds 600/1200 ante 300
action UTG limps folded round to me on the button, i have 22 and opt to limp as 22 not a huge hand and i was relatively short stacked with only 20k in chips.
SB limped BB checked

flop 2 j 4 all hearts, SB shoves all in, BB folds UTG pushes all in and the action is back to me, despite having hit a set i folded believing that at least one had the flush, it would of cost me my entire stack to of called.

the turn and river were both blanks, SB turned over Ah 8d and UTG turned over As Jc (SB) was eliminated from the game in 8th place

so my questions in order of events:

should i of folded pre to the UTG limp?
should i of opened for a raise?
should i of risked my entire stack on such a dangerous board?
was i right to think more about the money ladder? (tourney cost £32 entry

bubble £10 (to come off 1st place monies - agreed at table)
7th £20
6th £40
5th £60

top 7 were paid, i managed 5th after not getting any other hands and basically was blinded out.
 
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Fri Apr 22, 2011, 02:37 PM
(#2)
Deleted user
Seems like you should be playing for first here with a pay structure like this.
If you are shortstacked than I would be calling here 80% of the time depending on any reads of course.Most people would tend to slow play a massive hand,so the shove is a semi bluff most of the time.
You will find people will shove and bluff if they have the Ace of a flush draw,since they think two things.You dont have the nuts or at least dont think you have it and two,it takes a better hand to call.
You limped and didnt show much strength.Since he has the ace he can narrow the hands that would call to KQ,KT and maybe QT.So he has a lot of fold equity by shoving here.

Good players are active near the bubble since weaker players nit up thinking about cashing.
You want to play for the win and looking at the pay out you have given I would be playing for 1st or 2nd and snap calling this hand.

Think about it like this...You cash in these how often?The times you do cash are you wanting to barely break even or take down a massive prize?
Once you think about that desicions become a lot easier to make.
 
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Fri Apr 22, 2011, 02:42 PM
(#3)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bashy27 View Post
should i of folded pre to the UTG limp?
I'm not usually a big fan of limping to play fit or fold on a 17 bb stack, but if the blinds aren't likely to raise I think it's viable here, with the understanding that I'm not simply set mining, planning to give up every time I don't hit a set. If the flop gets checked to me I'd plan to use my position as last to act to bet generally.

Quote:
should i of opened for a raise?
Also viable, but you pretty much have to make this a push. You can't raise a normal amount and play it well post flop on such a short stack. Depends a lot on what you know aobut the limper and blinds. You may or may not have had prior experience with them before the final table to draw on.

Quote:
should i of risked my entire stack on such a dangerous board?
I would definitley not fold a set here. Doubtful either have a big flush as peeps like to slowplay the nuts and shove, reshove isn't consistent with that. This is usually going to be a smaller flush or a non-flush hand that wants to "protect it's hand". I'd be a tad worried about a set of 4's tbh, but not enough to prevent me from getting my money in here as you see the naked Ah as well as Jx plenty often enough in these spots.

Quote:
was i right to think more about the money ladder? (tourney cost £32 entry

bubble £10 (to come off 1st place monies - agreed at table)
7th £20
6th £40
5th £60

top 7 were paid, i managed 5th after not getting any other hands and basically was blinded out.
No, these pay increases are meaningless. Were you hoping to make a 10-30 profit? You didn't post 1st - 4th but look at those payouts, you should be trying to maximize your chances to compete for 1st. Limping in on a short stack, flopping a set and folding out of fear of going broke isn't going to get you to 1st. If you're playing to win I think this is a must call with a set.

Dave
 
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Fri Apr 22, 2011, 10:59 PM
(#4)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
How are the stack sizes? If this is like the #1 and #3 stacks with you as #2 there may be cause to fold (though you should have folded preflop)...while it is most likely +chip EV it may not be +$EV to get it in...failing a situation like that...

Shove shove shove shove shove. Even if someone has a flush you still have outs to a boat. Unless you have some read or tell where one of those guys is super confident with a made flush or JJJ, get it in! Play to win and worst case, you get £10.

With stack sizes and ICM you might be able to get a more clear answer. It might even be fold.
 
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Sat Apr 23, 2011, 12:24 AM
(#5)
bashy27's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 57
BronzeStar
thanks, for the input, the stack sizes were from the SB around 45k and the UTG around 60k, average chip stacks were 50k, when the SB shoved i was stacking my chips up to make the call, the UTG re shove is what threw me i had the SB on the nut flush draw as had previous reads on him from earlier tables the UTG player i had absolutely no info on at all, i didn't have him on the flush either by his instant re-shove which sort of led me to thinking he had 44 or slow playing JJ pre flop and then wanting to protect it on the flop, as the game progressed it showed him to slow play big hands i never saw him raise a pot, he either called or folded even watched him limp with aces and then get angry when he was beaten by a BB blind hand that flopped 2 pr.

i was just at the casino tonight and spoke to the winner of the game and he told me that the UTG guy ended up blinding himself out when they were heads up as he just kept folding to min raises or flat calling them and then checking them down unless he was bet into again.

as for how many of these tournies have i cashed in, that was my 1st cash in that particular one after bubbling in it the previous week, i have cashed in 2 others aswell of a slightly different format. i have played 6 games there in total.
 

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