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A10 shove after a raise

 
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A10 shove after a raise - Sat Apr 23, 2011, 10:33 AM
(#1)
andrei17731's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 160
Don't know if i made the correct decision, please give your suggestions.



PokerStars Game #61203720021: Tournament #388147132, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2011/04/23 6:59:28 PT [2011/04/23 9:59:28 ET]
Table '388147132 3' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 2: s2pak_kms (2875 in chips)
Seat 3: andrei17731 (1860 in chips)
Seat 5: Javieñ (3782 in chips)
Seat 6: gabbana87 (4850 in chips)
Seat 7: TheNilehorse (3320 in chips)
Seat 8: bmacdonnell (2998 in chips)
s2pak_kms: posts small blind 100
andrei17731: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to andrei17731 [Tc As]
Javieñ: folds
gabbana87: folds
andrei17731 said, "oh"
TheNilehorse: raises 400 to 600
bmacdonnell: folds
s2pak_kms: folds
andrei17731: raises 1260 to 1860 and is all-in
TheNilehorse: calls 1260
gabbana87 said, "shove on ppl cause they dont know how to play this game"
*** FLOP *** [6s Qc Jh]
*** TURN *** [6s Qc Jh] [2c]
*** RIVER *** [6s Qc Jh 2c] [Js]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
 
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Sat Apr 23, 2011, 12:17 PM
(#2)
archide's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 229
BronzeStar
You have 9 BBs here, you have no FE and you will get called by pretty much 90% of what raises here because he's getting 2:1 to call with any PP, and any better ace.

Bluffs, and maybe A6-A8 fold half of the time, and A9 will most likely call. So you're really only doing very well against a small percent of his holdings. I like the shove but as an open shove, because you have a lot more FE when someone doesn't open raise before you.
 
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Sat Apr 23, 2011, 02:10 PM
(#3)
De Hitman's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 299
A-10 is the worst hand in poker to shove with because if you've been dealt a-10 then more than likely your being set up just CALL with it/ even call an all-in with it just don't shove all-in with it because 85% of the time you will come second. Thats my opinium as ive shoved all-in with it 5 times this month and won once
 
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Sat Apr 23, 2011, 02:29 PM
(#4)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
I agree with Arch on this one. If you're going to shove, I like it alot better as an open, rather than after someone else raised to 3BB. The raise before you will almost always call your shove and you will be an underdog against everything they would have.

I'd more than likely let this go, unless I had a good read on the opponent. You still had a decent chipstack and can find a better situation to put all of your chips into.
 
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Sat Apr 23, 2011, 04:45 PM
(#5)
andrei17731's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 160
what do you mean by FE and PP?
 
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Sat Apr 23, 2011, 05:01 PM
(#6)
Deleted user
FE = Fold Equity
PP= Pocket pair

Fold equity is:
The likelyhood of your opponent folding x gain in equity if opponent folds.

Let one of the math guys explain it better,I just confuse the hell out of people.
 
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Sat Apr 23, 2011, 07:00 PM
(#7)
archide's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 229
BronzeStar
So if the pot is 100 and I bet 100 and my opponent and I are likely to split the pot if he calls and he will fold 10% of the time then each time I bet out 100 into a 100 pot I gain 10 in fold equity.

This is because 10% of 100 chips (in the pot) I will win.

and 90% of the time I will split the 100 so I will pick up 45 chips as an average over many samples of this exact situation.

This means when I bet 100 into a 100 pot where I am splitting the pot 90% of the time but I am winning the pot 10% because he folds it is also a +EV (Plus expected value) move only because of the equity I get from the pot from him folding.

This is (FE) HIGHLY overrated when you are against an opponent who is a calling station as your fold equity decreases dramatically, vs an opponent who thinks the sky is falling and will fold a lot of pot sized bets.

#1 thing you can do is concentrate on forcing yourself to accurately think about how much FE you have in a hand, and NOT use it as an excuse to bet.
 
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Sat Apr 23, 2011, 07:29 PM
(#8)
andrei17731's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 160
thanks I know what fold equity is, i just didn't understand the abbreviation, and what I think you ment to say is the percentage that the opponent will fold. So if a person folds 20% of the time your percent equity is 20% and then you can add that on to the percentage of winning the hand.
 
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Sat Apr 23, 2011, 07:37 PM
(#9)
andrei17731's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 160
De hitman, I don't understand what you mean be "more than likely you're being set up"?
 
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Sat Apr 23, 2011, 08:24 PM
(#10)
andrei17731's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 160
In approaching this hand (A10), you should consider that you're 9bb and the blinds are 100/200, so you should be ruminating as to when is the right moment in shoving all in. As the opponent raised 3bb to 600, you've bet 200 since you're in the big blind and now have 1660 left and are put to a decision as to whether you should shove it here or fold it, Obviously, you can't call, with a total of 600 chips from your stack thats a 33% investment and are committed on the flop, so it's whether a shove or fold. You've invested only 11% with your 200bb so technically it's okay to fold but you're now 8bb and blinds are going up so the next hands that you're, at worst, going to commit with is Ax, but the only difference would have to be that no one has raised before you and you're the first to shove and at best you would win 2200 and by that time the blinds would be 125/250 so you'll have to go all in pretty soon, in the next 3bb that's a total of 27 hands with 9 people, which you're likely to get Ax. ( if you know the percentage or how to calculate it please post it.) So folding is an option, I would consider. If you were to shove it, the pot would now be a total of 2560 and the opponent need to only call 1000 which gives him 2.5 to 1 odds. If he has anything worse my hand such as underpair and undercards, he has the right odds to call, so he's going to call the shove. The possible hands that I can't beat are TT+, AJ+, and I would be a 3 to 1 underdog. So it would perhaps it would be wiser to fold this hand? And would you be able to use stack to pot ratio in this situation or would there be no point?
 
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Sat Apr 23, 2011, 10:52 PM
(#11)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
With 9BBs you can wait until you can get first in. A 10 is a pretty good hand to shove, but I'd honestly prefer a hand like 10 8 suited here. You're restealing, and the chance that your shove gets called is actually really high. A lot of calling hands have an ace in them, many of which have you crushed.

The question is, how often is the raiser stealing here? Cutoff is a steal position and if you've seen this guy using his position and making steals here you may very well be ahead of his range. If you shove he's getting about 2 to 1 odds, so he's getting good odds to call with pretty much his entire range. Because of this, my preferred play here would be to either call or fold. Since you are in the blinds you will be first to act on the flop, and you might be able to shove the flop as a stop and go. Your stack size is perfect for it! You have almost exactly a pot size bet left, so now you'll be giving him 2 to 1 odds, but with only 2 cards to come instead of 5. If he's behind at this point he isn't getting good odds to improve unless he has at least 8 outs. You can get unimproved AJ+ to fold, as well as other hands that might improve, and even some smaller pairs.
 

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