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Flop Top Pair

 
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Flop Top Pair - Mon Apr 25, 2011, 07:09 AM
(#1)
spike8998's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 853
Here I hit top pair have a good kicker plus I'm opened ended
Did my raise re-raise constitute good/bad play ?
I put the other guy on 9's or a lower pair because he only 3xbb preflop

PokerStars Game #61274113929: Tournament #387246857, 10FPP Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2011/04/25 4:22:09 WET [2011/04/24 23:22:09 ET]
Table '387246857 74' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: arpm245 (1740 in chips)
Seat 2: Pizza_Man83 (8310 in chips)
Seat 3: Don André 89 (5320 in chips)
Seat 4: gvader001 (1840 in chips)
Seat 5: spike8998 (1450 in chips)
Seat 6: 19771970 (1225 in chips)
Seat 7: yselmeer (1595 in chips)
Seat 8: Tshan47 (1500 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 9: kerenk (2720 in chips)
spike8998: posts small blind 25
19771970: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to spike8998 [Kh Qc]
yselmeer: folds
Tshan47: folds
kerenk: folds
arpm245: folds
Pizza_Man83: calls 50
Don André 89: raises 100 to 150
gvader001: folds
spike8998: calls 125
19771970: folds
Pizza_Man83: calls 100
*** FLOP *** [Jh Ts Qd]
spike8998: bets 150
Pizza_Man83: folds
Don André 89: raises 150 to 300
spike8998: raises 300 to 600
Don André 89: raises 300 to 900
spike8998: raises 400 to 1300 and is all-in
Don André 89: calls 400
*** TURN *** [Jh Ts Qd] [9s]
*** RIVER *** [Jh Ts Qd 9s] [4s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
spike8998: shows [Kh Qc] (a straight, Nine to King)
Don André 89: shows [Ac Ad] (a pair of Aces)
spike8998 collected 3100 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3100 | Rake 0
Board [Jh Ts Qd 9s 4s]
Seat 1: arpm245 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Pizza_Man83 folded on the Flop
Seat 3: Don André 89 showed [Ac Ad] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 4: gvader001 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: spike8998 (small blind) showed [Kh Qc] and won (3100) with a straight, Nine to King
Seat 6: 19771970 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: yselmeer folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Tshan47 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: kerenk folded before Flop (didn't bet)
 
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Mon Apr 25, 2011, 10:24 AM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,862
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
with the rainbow flop, the only hands you have to worry about are a set, 2 pair, AQ or AK or longshot with 89 suited.

With the min raises, I'd almost toss AK from the range, because if they have the nuts, they either most likely will call to keep you in the hand or push on the 2nd raise. I'd also probably rule out a set, because at this low of a blind level, they'd probably bet a bit more preflop with 10's-Q's to try and isolate against one opponent.

As long as you don't put them on 2 pair or AQ, I like the push. I'd have put pizza on a low pair with the limp, then call preflop.

They should have bet more preflop instead of the standard raise to 3BB. This early in a tourney, playing AA slower, against multiple players will get into trouble alot, which it did.
 
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Mon Apr 25, 2011, 02:08 PM
(#3)
spike8998's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 853
Thanks JW
 
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Mon Apr 25, 2011, 04:56 PM
(#4)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
Quote:
I put the other guy on 9's or a lower pair because he only 3xbb preflop
Lower pairs either want to end the hand preflop and raise more or want to limp in and hope to flop a set. Also, you really shouldn't be making your raise size correspond with your hand strength, especially preflop. A standard raise size like 2.5-3.5 BBs works pretty well. For every limper raise make it 1BB per limp and add on your standard raise, i.e. 2 limpers: 2+3=5 BBs. If these numbers are getting big compared to your stack, limping, folding, and shoving are often better options. Add on an extra .5-1 BB when out of position (SB/BB), since being out of position sucks and you really want the hand over before the flop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
With the min raises, I'd almost toss AK from the range, because if they have the nuts, they either most likely will call to keep you in the hand or push on the 2nd raise.
Seems to me the minraises make the nuts more likely, as they're forcing lesser hands to have good odds and squeezing out almost guaranteed value. (Making small bets that will be called something like 90% of the time instead of a big bet that might only get called 60%. It's not optimal, but a lot of people would rather make a small amount of money than have the opponent fold when they have the nuts.) Minraises tend to look like one of two things to me: someone who thinks they have you crushed making tiny unfoldable value bets or someone who doesn't understand/care about bet sizing and lazily just hits the raise button.

That in mind, looking back at the preflop raise--it was not a minraise. A tiny raise, but not a minraise. This is the kind of raise I'd expect from a huge hand (KK, AA) or maybe a speculative hand that plays well in position postflop.

On the flop, I think your bet was too small. Actually with the pot being 1/3 your stack I think you should check with the intention of check-raising all-in. Say he has aces, which is not unlikely given his preflop raise. Any 9, Q, K, A gives you a better hand. That's 4+2+3+2 = 11 outs. This is a monster draw and you're almost even money against AA (and there's plenty of dead money in the pot to make up the other ~7%). As played, when he raised your tiny tiny bet, you should definitely push all in. Instead you 3-bet small, and he 4-bet back. Now he should have a huge hand but you're pot-committed, and will clearly be getting the right price to draw (you're effectively calling 700 to win a pot of 2400, or getting better than 3 to 1, which is good enough against anything but AK.)

This is an example of overplaying aces.
 
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Mon Apr 25, 2011, 08:18 PM
(#5)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,517
(Head Trainer)
Be cautious about your hand ranging spike. You said you put him on 99 or lower pair because his preflop raise was 3x. Not sure why you say this tbh, but that's not a reasonable range, players will have big aces and bigger pairs in their range for sure.

On the flop I like your lead out, but really don't like the 3b. When he raises you, it seems unlikely that you're good now. He's not taking this line with 99. We can certainly continue with top pair+OESD, but I think we're just value owning ourselves raising again. The guy isn't laying down KK or AQ or sets, and the nuts is still in his range (like ori said some players min-raise post flop with the nuts to build the pot but try and keep you in at the same time). I think I would call and re-evaluate on the turn.

Also, this is a fold preflop. KQo out of position in what figures to be a raised 3 way pot is a long term losing proposition.
 

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