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final table with 15bb, AK

 
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final table with 15bb, AK - Wed Apr 27, 2011, 08:58 AM
(#1)
andrei17731's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 160
I didnt' really know what to do here. please advise.



PokerStars Game #61371242693: Tournament #389282620, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2011/04/27 5:55:19 PT [2011/04/27 8:55:19 ET]
Table '389282620 1' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: bekhterev (3745 in chips) out of hand (moved from another table into small blind)
Seat 2: Lun@r_D (2790 in chips)
Seat 3: jvieiradias8 (3660 in chips)
Seat 4: NiiceJacket (4540 in chips)
Seat 5: Deza7 (3016 in chips)
Seat 6: Balamyt_82 (5005 in chips)
Seat 7: andrei17731 (3593 in chips)
Seat 8: Jorel XIII (10213 in chips)
Seat 9: massive5 (3938 in chips)
Lun@r_D: posts the ante 25
jvieiradias8: posts the ante 25
NiiceJacket: posts the ante 25
Deza7: posts the ante 25
Balamyt_82: posts the ante 25
andrei17731: posts the ante 25
Jorel XIII: posts the ante 25
massive5: posts the ante 25
Lun@r_D: posts small blind 100
jvieiradias8: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to andrei17731 [Kh Ah]
andrei17731 said, "sweet final table"
NiiceJacket: folds
Deza7: folds
Balamyt_82: raises 200 to 400
andrei17731: raises 3168 to 3568 and is all-in
Jorel XIII: folds
massive5: folds
Lun@r_D: folds
jvieiradias8: folds
Balamyt_82: calls 3168
 
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Wed Apr 27, 2011, 09:01 AM
(#2)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
insta shove
 
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Wed Apr 27, 2011, 12:48 PM
(#3)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,819
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
I'd have done the exact same thing you did.
 
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Wed Apr 27, 2011, 02:32 PM
(#4)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
Yup, great shove. He should fold almost everything. If he has QQ+ you just got unlucky.
 
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Wed Apr 27, 2011, 02:40 PM
(#5)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,510
(Head Trainer)
15 bb's, min raise in front, and AK. Snap shove imo.
 
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Wed Apr 27, 2011, 02:54 PM
(#6)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Since you started this psot with "I don't know what to do here", then your shove over the open raiser with AKs is just fine. You really do not have enough info to do much else, and with a hand that will be racing (or better) against all but AA/KK, there are not REALLY going to be many better hands to get all your chips in...

BUT...

You do not give info on whether you are itm right now.
The stack sizes and table chatter seem to indicate this is an 18 man SNG, therefore you are not itm yet.

Your table "Q" is really not that bad to make it itm in an 18 man SNG since even if you flat this open raise, and fold the flop, you will be right around table average. You see, if the OTHER stacks in a similar low M range are "moving" chips highly frequently, there is a good chance people will bust, and YOU get into the money without you taking excessive chances.

Since you did not include info on the particular table dynamic though, I must assume you either do not know it, or are not aware of the effects of different table dynamics in late game, non ITM play. If either of these things is true, then there is NOTHING wrong with "standing" here on AKs, as you "need" the double up. But in other situations, the effectiveness of this play may not be as great.

See these links:
http://www.icmpoker.com/ <- input the stack sizes, and play aorund with this a bit.
http://www.sitandgoplanet.com/sitand..._to%20ICM.html
http://www.thepokerbank.com/strategy...ment/icm/what/

The key point to understand is: in SOME bubble and near bubble situations, the equity you gain by being all in is sometimes not "enough" to justify going all in. Your all in may well not increase your money chances enough to "run deep" often enough to be worth the "risk" of busting short of the money.

Obviously, if you are un-aware of ICM considerations, then you cannot USE them: thus a "stand" on AKs is almost always your "best play". But as your knowledge levle increases, other factors play into your decisions, and an all-in with AKs may not be the best decision HERE...

See?
 
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Wed Apr 27, 2011, 03:36 PM
(#7)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
I think this is a 27 man SnG, as there are 40500 chips total, and they start with 1500 chips. 40500/1500=27

Top 5 get paid: 100 / 72 / 48 / 28 / 22

I used ICM to find the big stack correct calling range (against TT+, AK) being about QQ+ and folding everything else. If you're pushing wider he could lower it a bit.
 
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Thu Apr 28, 2011, 02:36 PM
(#8)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by oriholic View Post
I think this is a 27 man SnG, as there are 40500 chips total, and they start with 1500 chips. 40500/1500=27

Top 5 get paid: 100 / 72 / 48 / 28 / 22

I used ICM to find the big stack correct calling range (against TT+, AK) being about QQ+ and folding everything else. If you're pushing wider he could lower it a bit.
thanks Oriholic...

My gut told me AKs does look to be the right move here, even with ICM considerations, but there ARE times when that really isnt true.

To me, the key point of near bubble situations is: look ot make the MOST of what you can.

Sometimes that means going for it, when a double up will propel you to a stack likely to leverage you to a far DEEPER cash position.

Sometimes though, you are SO SHORT that it may be better to "wait" until you are into even a min cash before going for the double up to run deeper.

17BB, with a "middle stack" in relation to the entire table and only 1 truly "big" stack is a HIGHLY tricky spot...

You go for it and double, you are now the 2nd stack, and have "crippled" 1 player (unless it is the big stack who doubles you).

You do NOT go for it, and fold (ick!) or call/fold, and you "maintain" pretty much the same relative chance of making the money.

So this is really NOT an "easy" or clear cut decision. A case can be made for flatting and seieng the flop with the intent of dumping any "miss", OR for shoving now...

Personally, I prefer to play a bigger stack, and would be pretty "un-comfortable" with waiting here, so I'm more likely to do as the OP did, and stand immediately. But if someone is more comfortable with short stack play, OR if the rest of the table is wildly accepting high risk, then flatitng might be the way to go...

who knows?

It comes down a lot ot oyur personal style preferences in this particular spot, and there really is not a ton you can do "wrong" here, unless you flat, then miss the flop, and continue putting chips in the pot anyway!

 
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Thu Apr 28, 2011, 04:01 PM
(#9)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
You don't have to be going for the double...you're going for the fold. Double up is the backup plan.
 

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