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Set of sevens

 
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Set of sevens - Thu May 05, 2011, 06:06 PM
(#1)
RosTo75's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 2
Was it a correct move to shove against pretty loose aggressive villain? I didn't take the time to calculate my EV TBH and make my move based on intuition rather. As You can see I was extremely lucky on the river or was I?


Last edited by RosTo75; Thu May 05, 2011 at 06:14 PM..
 
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Thu May 05, 2011, 07:02 PM
(#2)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
That's a huge raise you made preflop. I'd rather just call in position or maaaybe make a more standard raise. Putting over 20% of your stack in isn't usually a good thing.

Pretend you had 88 here instead of 77...now what???

Obviously you're getting it in on that flop. And you didn't shove. You called a shove with the second nuts....kind of different. The turn was bad for you, adding extra outs for the opponent. On the river you needed to fade 7 cards-- a Q, J, and 6. He was a whopping 14% to win on the river
 
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Thu May 05, 2011, 07:07 PM
(#3)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,819
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
preflop: why so much of a raise? You raised to 6BB, which is really big for only a pair of 7's.

flop: the only things to be worried for are QQ or a club draw. If they're loose aggressive, I'd think more of the club draw since they didn't raise preflop... and they only have 8 outs for the flush since you have the 7 of clubs. Their outs may not be good though, as if the board pairs, you have a full house.

With the set of 7's, I'd definitely call their all-in on the flop.

The turn gave them trip Q, but it gave you a full house (you're still way ahead as they have 7 outs)
The river gave you the absolute nuts.

You had the best hand at all of the points in time that you put in chips, and the best hand held. That's all you can ask for!
 
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Thu May 05, 2011, 07:51 PM
(#4)
!!!111Dan's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,290
Welcome to the forum Ros.
In reference to your question..you actually didn't shove..you called a shove. And on that flop..you have to call..you shouldn't worry about the villain holding QQ as set over set happens so rare, that you just have to accept it should you lose in that situation.
Did you get lucky on the river? No...you were an 86 percent favorite after the turn to win the hand.

Last edited by !!!111Dan; Fri May 06, 2011 at 11:36 AM.. Reason: 3 lil' words..on the river ;)
 
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Fri May 06, 2011, 08:07 AM
(#5)
RichGilliard's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 1
SilverStar
Yes you were lucky, for this reason....a bet of that nature shows me you were trying to take that pot down pre-flop. No way you want any callers to a 6X raise preflop w/ 77 even on the button. So in a sense flopping a set was very lucky for you in making the decision process a no brainer in scooping the pot off a set of 7's. But considering you will only flop a set 11% of the time this move will in the long run inevitably spell disaster. It all comes down to what you are trying to achieve in the hand, and to everyone who says "win obviously" there are more elements involved as poker is very situational.
 
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Fri May 06, 2011, 09:34 AM
(#6)
RosTo75's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 2
I didn't shove off course - my mistake. Thank You all for pointing that out.

Why I even raise pre-flop?
- I was on the button,
- everybody else folds,
- with only 2 players left, 77 seems like a very strong hand to me.

Why raise so much?
I'm following the strategy from the Lee Nelson's "Let's Play Poker" book. The game was 9 players Sit&Go, $1.20. According to Lee, standard raise should be 5BB (+1BB for any limper). I made a mistake by adding BB as a limper but the rest was intentional.

I hope that clarified everything. Thank You for all responses guys. It's always nice to learn something new about Your game.
 
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Fri May 06, 2011, 11:25 AM
(#7)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,510
(Head Trainer)
Everybody else didn't fold.

I agree with the others, really don't like the oversized raise on this stack size over 1 limper.

Once we flop middle set the only real question is how many fist pumps to make before we call the shove. I'm partial to 3 personally.

And I would say that you did get lucky in that the SB called this oversized raise with QJ which is just abysmal. If you'd observed the blind playing this horribly already then that's another arguement against making the oversized preflop raise with 77.
 
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Fri May 06, 2011, 03:10 PM
(#8)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
Everybody else didn't fold.

I agree with the others, really don't like the oversized raise on this stack size over 1 limper.

Once we flop middle set the only real question is how many fist pumps to make before we call the shove. I'm partial to 3 personally.

And I would say that you did get lucky in that the SB called this oversized raise with QJ which is just abysmal. If you'd observed the blind playing this horribly already then that's another arguement against making the oversized preflop raise with 77.
Agree...

No reason to make this size raise with 77.

Even with info that someone may CALL this, far too often 77 will not make a set, and will see an over card on the flop, to be "happy" about bloating the pot too early. So if oyu are raising to get extra value from Ax or Kx type players, your hand simply isn't strong enough.

If opponents are "tight" and will fold to this raise semi-often, then you are probably getitng called only by better, and folding out hands you WANT to play against your 77.

The ONLY reason for a raise this size would be to "isolate" agaisnt a loose limper with weak calling standards, but see pt 1 again. A proportional raise this size really is only "valid" to iso on a very loose RAISER, and even that is pretty risky...

AND...

If you fist pump more than twice, yer just "playing with it"!

 
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Sat May 07, 2011, 05:11 PM
(#9)
Wellied's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 1
I agree with the other guys, theres very little point in raising this pre-flop. If you really have to raise then 600 is way too large, 350-400 will get just as many folds as 600 will.

Going into the hand we have 26BB our M is ~17, we have a moderate hand on the button.

Our hand is one that wont play very well HU, but will play really great multiway. When we raise were potentially going to play a large pot with a moderate hand, if were called and any overcards over come on the flop (with no 7) , especially broadways then were not going to know where we are. Were setting ourselves up for a tough decision, when we should be trying to keep it simple.

Calling is far better than raising, we want to invite the SB in and get the BB to come along as our hand plays well against many people. Importantly we also have position, even if the flop isnt great for us, if everyone show weakness by checking the flop we can have an oppertunity to take it away from hands that can catch up, or are better but scared (tp or overpair pair with weak kicker if theres an over card)

We also give ourselves a very easy decision on the flop, if there are overcards and/or a lot of action and no 7 on the flop then we are done with the hand, if we hit our set then its a one way ticket to value town for our opponents. We can easily get our stack in by the turn or river, of course if we do have a dangerous flop then we might want to get it going with pot sized bets as opposed to 2/3-1/2 pot on a rainbow/unconnected flop.

Obviously call shove on flop, if no-one jams then jam this flop yourself.

(excuse my spelling Im pretty drunk)

Last edited by Wellied; Sat May 07, 2011 at 05:14 PM..
 

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