Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Poker Education & Beginners Questions /

Hyper-Turbo Push/Call/Fold Ranges - How Do I Figure Out The Optimal Play?

Old
Default
Hyper-Turbo Push/Call/Fold Ranges - How Do I Figure Out The Optimal Play? - Fri May 06, 2011, 11:28 PM
(#1)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Lately, I've taken an interest in hyper-turbos. I think that they're incredibly soft, because they're shallow on strategy, and all about math. Most people don't get the math. Therefore, most people are terrible hyper-turbo players. I think that if I can learn the ways of the pokermath force to determine the correct play at every decision point, I can earn a large sum of money in a short period of time playing in these games. The problem is, I don't know the math either.

Here's a quick hand history I want to show you guys:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 0.02 Tournament, 200/400 Blinds 80 Ante (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Panicky (MP2) (t3195)
MP3 (t4535)
CO (t4615)
Button (t3300)
SB (t5410)
BB (t980)
UTG (t2760)
UTG+1 (t2260)
MP1 (t5655)

Panicky's M: 2.42

Preflop: Panicky is MP2 with 7, A
UTG calls t400, 2 folds, What should I do?

This hand history illustrates the problem that I hope to resolve. I don't know how to calculate whether spots in hyper-turbos should have me pushing, folding, or calling for all of my chips.

Does anyone know the mathematical formulas used to determine the correct push/fold and all-in call plays? I'd like to learn how to use them, so that I can study my hand histories, calculate correct plays, get better at identifying them in-game, and quickly become a hyper-turbo crushing machine.
 
Old
Default
Sat May 07, 2011, 10:06 AM
(#2)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
try this, it is the absolute cats ass for push fold ranges etc, free for 30 days

http://www.sngwiz.com/tiki/tiki-index.php;)
 
Old
Default
Sat May 07, 2011, 11:51 AM
(#3)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
I forgot about SNG Wiz. I think I'll give that a shot. Thanks!
 
Old
Default
Sun May 08, 2011, 04:00 AM
(#4)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
You still have 8 BBs. Unless those guys are all nits (in a hyperturbo, haha), pretty sure this is a fold. Plus BB should be calling 100% so your steal will be seen. Suited I'd push, but offsuit, this is a fold. You can last quite a while before you need to push in such an early position. Gladly push this from the cutoff or button. If you get called by 77+, A8+, oh well. I don't really want to push such a weak ace any earlier than the cutoff especially on such a decently deep stack. A hand like 98 suited would be better as if you get called by AQ you still have about 40% equity.

Just remember, it's all about stack sizes. Stack size and position.
 
Old
Default
Interesting situation! - Tue May 31, 2011, 10:22 PM
(#5)
Andromedan11's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 9
Heh normally, given the blinds AND the antes (and of course the stack sizes) in that situation, you run into one of the (admittedly very few) problems with the ICM: how to handle non all in players. there's no differentiation...

In this example, what's that limper with so few big blinds doing???
If he intends to go all in anyway if he gets raised, it makes absolutely no sense to lose all his fold equity, which is all important at this stage of the tournament... AND he's about to pay another big blind next hand and be woefully short stacked.

Well, if we just count him in as just preparing to call any all in (which would make sense), ICM clearly states that you're folding this. But the funny thing is that EVEN if everyone folds to you (instead of the caller in this example), it's STILL a fold (A8o is the edge of your first all-in range in that spot, as far as offsuit aces are concerned).


Just don't forget another small problem with the ICM which you should learn to notice:
It assumes the other players are very good players as well. This runs into problems when players start calling ranges they should fold, hurting the lower edge of your push range (which is played for fold equity).

The reason for that is that in SNGs the chips you lose are worth more than the chips you win...so +EV decisions in chips could be -EV when it is translated to $...
That means that a player with too wide an all in calling range could be hurting BOTH of his AND your EV in $ (of course, it's still 0 sum...the other players in the tournament would gain equity in such cases).
When you notice such a player, tighten up a bit.

Good luck with the hyper turbos
 
Old
Default
Tue May 31, 2011, 11:31 PM
(#6)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Interesting insights, Andro.

Actually, in this case, I was making the assumption that the limper will fold a certain percentage of the time. In those cases, there is added expected value in shoving because there's dead money which lowers my shoving hand requirements. But limpers do typically throw me off, because I have to interpret why they're limping, and if they're limp/folding, or limp/calling.

Overall, I need to work on my own poker math skills. Hopefully, I'll be able to make some solid ICM estimates in situations like this off memory. That'll take work, though.
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com