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should i just of flat called

 
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should i just of flat called - Sun May 08, 2011, 05:07 PM
(#1)
johnboy1280's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 2
well i had only about 8 big big blinds left, had a limper and i push, looks like they trap me,
but what if i flat called i would of been scared of the ace on the river and folded,
was this the correct play to push at this time with this hand?? or was i too agressive




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Sun May 08, 2011, 07:58 PM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,802
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My favorite hand..... NOT! JJ with less than 10BB left, in my eyes, is either a push or a fold preflop (depending on what the others do before you). You only had 1 limper before you and when you decided to play it, pushed. Personally, I like the play.
The person with QQ really misplayed the hand, as they should not be limping with it from UTG+1. They should be putting in at least the standard raise.
If they did raise, then you've got a decision... play and push or fold. Unless something told me that they had AA, KK, AK, AQ, KQ or QQ, then it's an auto push in my eyes (and 3 of them put you into a coin flip, which is not a horrible situation). With them limping, you normally wouldn't put them on one of those (except maybe KQ) as they should be raising with any of the others.

Them limping preflop will get them into trouble more than they'll win, because any A can be callng a limp very easily from the blinds... and if an A sees the flop, then the QQ is in deep, deep trouble.
 
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Mon May 09, 2011, 05:25 AM
(#3)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnboy1280 View Post
well i had only about 8 big big blinds left, had a limper and i push, looks like they trap me,
but what if i flat called i would of been scared of the ace on the river and folded,
was this the correct play to push at this time with this hand?? or was i too agressive




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Simply put: Jam or Fold.

The REASON you need to be jamming (or folding) here is exactly what came on that flop: the A.

The biggest mistake in poker is NOT "getting trapped" by someone who will limp a "big" hand oop. You are making your decisions with incomplete info, so if HE wants to take a risk of going to the flop multi-way with a hand that doesn't really like that much, and YOU wake up with a emminently suitable "stand hand" for your short stack, AND if you hand just happens to be LESS than his limp, so be it; that's a "cooler". The biggest mistake in poker is putting a significant portion of your stakc into the pot, then FOLDING without giving yourself any shot at winning. You either should have committed sooner, or folded sooner...

So IF you limp along here, and you see that A, what are the chances you just limp/folded away a bit more than 25% of your stack here? Would you seriously WANT to call any bet after limping and seeing that Ace? Even if the oop limper checks, the pot would be AT LEAST 2100, your you'd only be able to fire 1700 into that pot; do you think that would be "enough" to get someone off even a weak A? So limping here tends to get you into a lot more "trouble" than it is worth...

Either commit EARLY in these spots, or FOLD and do not "waste" 25%+ of your stack.
 
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Mon May 09, 2011, 08:38 AM
(#4)
johnboy1280's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 2
many thanks for your input helped alot
 
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Mon May 09, 2011, 05:50 PM
(#5)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
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The only reason you'd call instead of push/fold on that stack is in the blinds, to make some kind of a stop and go play, where you'll have approximately a potsize bet remaining to shove at the flop. The idea is that you're giving 2 to 1 odds whether you shove pre or wait until the flop to autoshove. If you push pre, he gets to see 5 cards and is usually getting good odds to call with anything he would enter the pot with in the first place. By waiting until the flop comes he only gets to see 2 more cards, which is not enough for say AK on a 46Q flop where you have JJ. Or KJ vs. your AQ when you both flop air, or some gutshot, etc. Basically some way that he can make a mistake by calling off with 2 to 1 odds. (like a draw where he's a 3 to 1 dog)

If you're in the blinds you can call and shove the flop, but if you'll be acting last it's definitely better to get the money in pre. Especially with a big pocket pair. And I'd be pushing a lot wider here on 8 BBs...for value.
 

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