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2.20 NLHE Tournament needing to chip up

 
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2.20 NLHE Tournament needing to chip up - Sun May 08, 2011, 10:47 PM
(#1)
OMGCBF's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 48
Hi all,

Following is a hand from a 2.20 tournament today involving the BB and myself in CO. At this point I'm still ok in Chips but looking to chip up as the antes have kicked in.

Any comments appreciated.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 2.2 Tournament, 150/300 Blinds 25 Ante (8 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button (t24800)
SB (t28218)
BB (t6237)
UTG (t9795)
UTG+1 (t3358)
MP1 (t10275)
MP2 (t13894)
Hero (CO) (t4330)

Hero's M: 6.66

Preflop: Hero is CO with ,
4 folds, Hero bets t900, 2 folds, BB calls t600

Flop: (t2150) , , (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t2150, BB raises to t4300, Hero calls t1255 (All-In)

Turn: (t8960) (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t8960) (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: t8960
 
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Sun May 08, 2011, 11:12 PM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,862
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
what reads did you have on the BB, if any? That will be a big determining factor as to my answer to you. Were they playing loose, tight, any A???

I'd have probably led by pushing first on the flop, but reads would play a part in it.

If that's the std 2.20 mtt, then you shouldn't have hit the bubble yet and if so, I've played it a number of times, so know some of how people play in it.

Please let me know any reads that you had and I'll give you my opinion.
 
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Sun May 08, 2011, 11:22 PM
(#3)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
I like how you resisted the temptation to not make a standard preflop raise here. Well played, sir.

Looking at your stack, though, you started this hand with only 14 big blinds. When I'm dealt kings in this situation, I automatically know that there's no situation that would ever lead me to fold, so I take no steps to protect my stack here, like I might if I had 34 big blinds. I just find the best way to get all-in, then do it.

The preflop open raise is fine. The flop is good, since your opponent will very rarely have a six. It's not great in the sense that when you make a bet on the flop, the villain will usually fold, but this generally rates to be a good flop for kings in a two-way pot. I don't see much reason to check the flop, since checking only really gives the villain an extra chance to catch up. If they're not going to pay you now, they probably won't on the turn. So good idea in betting.

The pot-sized bet on the flop is a bit big, and I have two problems with it. First, it looks like you're value betting. Some people might read it as a bluff, but if you usually bet smaller (which I assume you do), then potting the flop all of a sudden throws up red flags and might induce a fold. The second problem is that if the villain was considering reraising you as a bluff, then you've stopped them from doing that, because the size of your raise compared to the size of your stacks gives them no fold equity. You're basically giving them an excuse not to bluff and to get away from their hand. A 2/3 pot-sized bet would typically be more appropriate.

Since you should never really be folding kings under any circumstances with a stack of your size, you made a good call on the flop. Overall, you played pretty straightforward, which is good with monster hands.
 
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Sun May 08, 2011, 11:49 PM
(#4)
OMGCBF's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 48
@JW

In answer to your question

I'd only seen 2 hands to SD at this table with this player, he'd previously played an A-7 hearts against pocket 10's in a multi way for cheap entry in late pos and caught an Ace on the turn.

The other was him limp-calling with A-4 clubs in position, then calling the all in bet for 1/3 his stack on a 2 club board with only the flush draw. ( He was beaten when the BB aggressor on both streets showed down Aces).

Other than that he was relatively tight. Almost never open raising so I guess Tight passive, he had limped behind from late position a few times and also filled up the SB a few times with no raisers in.

Does that help at all?

Last edited by OMGCBF; Mon May 09, 2011 at 12:11 AM..
 
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Sun May 08, 2011, 11:59 PM
(#5)
OMGCBF's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 48
@Panicky

Quote:
Originally Posted by PanickyPoker View Post
The second problem is that if the villain was considering reraising you as a bluff, then you've stopped them from doing that, because the size of your raise compared to the size of your stacks gives them no fold equity. You're basically giving them an excuse not to bluff and to get away from their hand. A 2/3 pot-sized bet would typically be more appropriate.
So given that, would the fact that he CR be a possible warning signal here? Obviously I've left no room to fold or I'm crippled so its right to push it all in after the CR?
 
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Mon May 09, 2011, 12:00 AM
(#6)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
Well you're never ever ever ever folding...Your potsize bet for most of your stack leaves you committed. Might as well just push. If he has a 6 or AA or 22 oh well, bink a king. There are a ton of overpairs he can be overplaying on this flop.

You're not deep enough to do anything but try to get all the money in. He's paying off with 77-QQ. You're ahead of most of his range here.

This is a way ahead/way behind spot, but you're usually the one way ahead here. I mean look at what he would have to have to be ahead... AA, 22, 66, or 6x. AA makes sense if he's a trappy player, but is he? 22 and 66 fit perfectly. What 6x could he have? A6s, 76s, 65s, maybe 86s or K6s. I can't see him calling a preflop raise any wider than that (you're really not deep enough even for those, but in a $2.20 tourney a lot of players will fail to adjust to the stack sizes). Against the range of 22, 66, 77+, A6s, 76s, 65s, 86s, K6s, you are 62% to win! Maybe he has nothing and thinks his big ace nothing is better than your nothing, so he's playing AQ, AK, AJ. This takes you up to 72%.

Verdict: You're crushing his range and on a shallow stack. Get it in.

What did he have, A2? Turned an ace to knock you out? 88, rivered a boat?
 
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Mon May 09, 2011, 12:08 AM
(#7)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMGCBF View Post
So given that, would the fact that he CR be a possible warning signal here? Obviously I've left no room to fold or I'm crippled so its right to push it all in after the CR?
Sure, it's a warning of something. But Ori's right, you're going to be ahead of his range here. You might even be ahead of his check-raise range. But since you have so much money in the pot, you shouldn't fold, even if you think you're behind. I just think you should be betting the flop a bit softer, so that Mr. Villain might think that he can get you off your hand with an even worse range of hands and he might shove all-in more often, and you'll get more chips in the long run. You played the hand fine, though.

Last edited by PanickyPoker; Mon May 09, 2011 at 12:23 AM..
 
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Mon May 09, 2011, 12:21 AM
(#8)
OMGCBF's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 48
Thankyou all, I was looking for validation that I hadn't done anything grossly stupid (hard to I know with KK in this situation)

In fact he turned over 22 for the Boat and busted me.

I guess the lesson I'll take is that all in straight up at the flop was probably better even if he would fold some of his range. A pot sized bet was probably not the most efficient way to extract more chips out of him if I was trying to keep him in the pot.

Does that seem like a resonable summary?
 
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Mon May 09, 2011, 12:25 AM
(#9)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,862
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMGCBF View Post
@JW

In answer to your question
I'd only seen 2 hands to SD at this table with this player, he'd previously played an A-7 hearts against pocket 10's in a multi way for cheap entry in late pos and caught an Ace on the turn.

The other was him limp-calling with A-4 clubs in position, then calling the all in bet for 1/3 his stack on a 2 club board with only the flush draw. ( He was beaten when the BB aggressor on both streets showed down Aces).
Other than that he was relatively tight. Almost never open raising so I guess Tight passive?
Does that help at all?
Yes, it does help, because it really puts A 6 into his preflop range, along with Ax.
If the player yet to act would play any A, then I don't wait for the flop, I'd have shoved preflop on him and make him double you if he wants to draw to his cards. Letting him see the flop could put him ahead in the hand and that's what you don't want to do, because you're not letting KK go without an A on the board.
 
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Mon May 09, 2011, 12:31 AM
(#10)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
I think a smaller bet on the flop would have been better. If he called, just shove the turn no matter what. But I think the key point is that when you have KK with 14 big blinds in a tournament, you should never look for reasons to fold, or why you should have folded. If you lose, it doesn't change the fact that you played well.

If you want more validation, Google setmining. It's a tactic used in poker, and your villain here did it wrong. They actually played pretty bad, in my opinion, because they should have shoved preflop. Do some research on the concept of setmining, and you might understand what they did wrong. It might make you feel a bit better about your own play. Remember, poker is about making the least mistakes. When you make the least mistakes, you'll win more than you lose.
 
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Mon May 09, 2011, 12:34 AM
(#11)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
If the player yet to act would play any A, then I don't wait for the flop, I'd have shoved preflop on him and make him double you if he wants to draw to his cards. Letting him see the flop could put him ahead in the hand and that's what you don't want to do, because you're not letting KK go without an A on the board.
I disagree with this. When you're playing KK, you shouldn't be playing scared. I can understand this if you were on TT or AK, but if an ace flops, oh well. I think you lose a lot of value by shoving 14BB preflop with KK instead of setting up a go-and-go by raising to 3x or 4x, then shipping any flop, even if it has an ace. You'll get a lot of people calling the flop with way weaker hands than KK. It's also seems pretty much like guesswork to say that someone would call a 14x raise with any ace. I think the optimal play is to raise normally, but perhaps make the raise a bit bigger, like 6 big blinds if you're likely to get a lot of people calling a 3x open.

Last edited by PanickyPoker; Mon May 09, 2011 at 12:37 AM..
 

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