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Extracting Maximum value with a monster

Extracting Maximum value with a monster - Mon May 09, 2011, 06:39 AM
OMGCBF's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 48
Hi all,

Question regarding how to extract best possible value when you do have the monster.

Following is a hand from a nightly freeroll with an absolute monster.

My concern is the way I played the river. I think I was OK until that point. Would like to hear thoughts/alternatives from anyone on this one.


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 0 Tournament, 50/100 Blinds (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB (t2670)
BB (t715)
UTG (t6735)
Hero (UTG+1) (t1720)
MP1 (t1380)
MP2 (t5150)
MP3 (t2825)
CO (t4895)
Button (t1525)

Hero's M: 11.47

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with ,
UTG calls t100, Hero bets t400, 1 fold, MP2 calls t400, 3 folds, SB calls t350, 1 fold, UTG calls t300

Flop: (t1700) , , (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks

Turn: (t1700) (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets t200, MP2 calls t200, 2 folds

River: (t2100) (2 players)
Hero bets t1120 (All-In), 1 fold

Total pot: t2100
Mon May 09, 2011, 12:47 PM
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,814
on the river, instead of automatically pushing, I would want to bet the amount that I think that the opponent will call.... which would be based on what, if any, reads I had on them. Best case would be that they hit the flush and would, instead of calling your bet, would raise.
By you pushing, it gives them an easier out to fold... and you want to at least get some chips from them.

Other options for you would be to make the small bet on the flop, instead of the turn.... but with the way the club draw showed up on the turn, you'd really want a club draw to stay around (and for a small bet on the turn, a club draw should stay in the hand).
If someone had a 10 and you made a small bet on the flop, then you should get raised (which I'd immediately push back, if their raise didn't put me all-in).
Mon May 09, 2011, 07:34 PM
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
Question regarding how to extract best possible value when you do have the monster
Not by betting 200 into a 1700 chip pot.

Your whole stack is smaller than the pot. You can get called by a lot before the river. Unfortunately there aren't a whole lot of draws out there, but you will certainly be able to get it in with a hand like A 10 or K10, also you could have KJ drawing to a straight. Maybe by checking the flop you've allowed a couple clubs to pick up a flush draw. Now is the time to bet and get your value. If he's drawing for a flush and he misses he's not gonna pay you off on the river. You need to at least get one street of value...real value. Your stack is so tiny, I would

On the river your whole stack is just over 50% of the pot. Since he's been so passive I don't see any reason to expect him to bluff at you...Mayyyyybe he has a flush, but he's calling a 1/2 pot bet with a flush for sure. Just "push". Clearly by his fold he doesn't have the flush, and he folds because he's afraid of the flush. If you got the money in earlier there would be no possibility of a made flush for him to run away from. He probably had a hand like KJ or a pocket pair.

Remember, just because you have a big hand doesn't mean you'll get paid for it. Sometimes no one else has anything. Sometimes your tight image comes back to get you and people will fold good hands when they're certain you have better. Note, this is a reason why you need such high implied odds to play speculative hands. Sometimes you make your hand and don't get paid (and sometimes you end up losing).

I would have just bet the flop. Betting accomplishes a couple things. It gets the money in when you're positive you're ahead on a flop that hits most ranges. You're the preflop raiser so you should continue your aggression. If you normally C-bet a flop and then don't, it looks fishy. It also protects your C-bets with air--if you check when you wreck the flop, and bet with air, people should start to pick up on this. And again, it builds the pot up so you can get your whole stack in by the river if anyone has anything. If you had 77 on a 227 rainbow flop, then I can see checking and praying someone catches up, because that flop misses pretty much everything but your hand. But Q 10 10 hits a ton of broadway hands and puts out some nice draws. Yeah, it would be better for you if the flop had two of one suit, but at least there's a straight draw and some very commonly played cards.

I'd probably put about half my stack in on the flop (700 chips or so), hoping to get raised [or called and easily put my remaining 600 chips into a ~3000 chip pot on the turn]. It's a tiny bet relative to the pot actually, but it's big enough that you can get a little value, and it looks like you want people to fold small enough that it looks like you have left yourself room to fold. Your full remaining stack is less than the pot but it's big enough to scare away too many draws.
Tue May 10, 2011, 03:12 PM
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
I agree your flop bet (0) and turn bet (200) are both too small. As the preflop raiser you're expected to bet the flop, so bet it. You don't have to worry about Tx, anyone holding a ten will get it in with you by the river no matter how you play it. You want to make sure you start getting money in against the case Q, before the board becomes scary for hands like Q9... vs draws like KJ or J9, and vs. pocket pairs who may well call on the flop because you were supposed to bet so they don't believe you yet. With the money being so shallow you don't need to make big bets to get the job done, but you need to at least bet something.

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