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Question about Button Stealing in Fixed-Limit Hold'em

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Question about Button Stealing in Fixed-Limit Hold'em - Tue May 10, 2011, 03:03 AM
(#1)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
I'm trying to get a grasp of Fixed-Limit Hold'em at the moment, and I just have a basic question about strategy that I don't feel like looking up. How does button stealing work?

In No-Limit, I really expand my range when folded to on the button, because I know that any pot I see a flop with will be in position, and it follows that I'll see fewer flops, because people will fold their blinds most of the time. But since people call with twice as many hands in Limit, my fold equity goes down, which makes stealing less profitable. What's more, since I can't ever raise more than one bet, there's much less value in holding position, since I rarely hold the power to price people out, bluff effectively, or bet an amount that will pay off my draws.

So far, it looks to me like expanding my button range is a bad prospect. Does anyone have thoughts on this?
 
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Tue May 10, 2011, 09:57 AM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
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If you're at a table with any type of calling station (tons of them at the limit tables).... do NOT try to do it. You'll get yourself into more trouble than what you will make from them.
 
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Tue May 10, 2011, 01:00 PM
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Herkstwin's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 255
Stealing the blinds in limit is not nearly as easy because, as you rightly said, "I can only raise one bet." Far too many limit players will see the flop, because it is cheap to do so. It is an entirely different game than NL, so brush up on your math/probability/statistics - because that is what FL is all about.

GL and see you at the tables.

Herk
 
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Tue May 10, 2011, 01:09 PM
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TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
If you're at a table with any type of calling station (tons of them at the limit tables).... do NOT try to do it. You'll get yourself into more trouble than what you will make from them.
But this doesn't mean you should open limp from the button either. I almost never open limp in FLHE from any position. When opening I play raise or fold.
 
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Tue May 10, 2011, 04:13 PM
(#5)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Alright. Thanks for the tips, guys. My poker math at these tabes is pretty solid, and one of the reasons that I'm taking a liking to Limit is because odds are so much easier to calculate in Limit than in No-Limit. But I've been running with a VPIP of under 20%, which has been the tightest at my tables. I think my post-flop game is pretty decent, but I just haven't had a clue what to play preflop. I'll read up on some strategy and work on it. Thanks again!

 
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Wed May 11, 2011, 02:49 PM
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sharkatack89's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrumpinJoe View Post
But this doesn't mean you should open limp from the button either. I almost never open limp in FLHE from any position. When opening I play raise or fold.

Yes yes. What he said. I play mostly 6 max. I have a very tight hand range that I play, but, I play that range from any position. And as joe says, If I want to call, I'm raisin. Good Luck @ FLHE panicky. I think Chris123 said it best. FLHE is very hard to eeek out a profit. I'm on the worse side of variance these days, but, mostly has to do w/ BR being so low. But, keep at it. GL -DaCookieShark
 
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Thu May 12, 2011, 10:18 AM
(#7)
A_Fuffufnick's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 27
In ring games I am exclusively a 6 max FLHE player. I love the game for not only all the reason mentioned above but also for the pace of the action. I am happy to say that up until now at least (knock on wood) I have been a pretty consistent winner with a + EV of better than the normal 3BB per 100 hands. (Variance I’m sure is right around the corner.) Not only do I enjoy playing the micros I also love watching the high stakes players do their thing for the excitement and educational value. I am a fan of several of them though I will not write their names here. I will share my observations, experiences and thoughts for what they are worth.

In limit the BB is worth defending against a single raise with virtually ATCs at least to the flop. An attacking button can be easily sucked in if the BB hits as he will normally continue to fire at least a c-bet. With a decent draw the flop bet should be called (if not raised in order steal the initiative and perhaps gain a free or half priced turn and/or river card by virtue of your check raise). If by the turn, since the bet is doubled, the blinds have not hit sqwatt they will probably fold to your second barrel depending upon your table image.

As we all know poker is a game of exploiting small advantages and in FLHE this feels especially true. Having the button folded down to you is one that should not be missed. Granted you can’t get away with it 100% of the time but if you are in the blinds you expect to be attacked. Someone on the table has got to have something . . .someone has to take the pot, why not the button? Fold it or raise it and fire.
 
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Thu May 12, 2011, 09:39 PM
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PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Thanks for the insight, Fuffu.
 

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