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Should this have been an easy read?

 
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Should this have been an easy read? - Wed May 11, 2011, 10:57 PM
(#1)
OMGCBF's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 48
Hi all,

Following hand comes from a .25NL cash game.

The result is favourable but as always want to analyse the path getting there to find improvement.

Villain has played many pots, often taken them down by good positional usage or leading the betting. Nearly always winning without showdown. Mostly entering the pot with a call of the raiser

Thinking ran as follows:

He's on the button so his range is fairly wide say top 20% ( in hindsight I realise I should have narrowed further because of the re-raise).

When the Q hits on board I'm not really worried about Q's, perhaps a pocket pair lower but mostly thinking its AK, AJ, AT, KQ etc. A's and K's are part of the range but the very top end. pretty sure he'll lead out If I check no matter what he has. I opt to check-raise, mostly out of wanting to take control from the bad position (he'd gotten used to leading the table a lot and getting his way). After the fact my concern here is the amount of my CR, I realise it left me with bugger all behind me and so the question here is 1. was it the right move and 2. if so should it have been smaller or just all-in?

On the Turn the A hits and I'm pretty sure I'm golden here, only A's, Q's and trips on the low end have me beat. However these are in fact all possibilities as he did call a 3x CR. There is also now a diamond draw but to be honest I'm not thinking about it and only realise after making the next action

I opt to check, he checks behind. Now I'm certain he doesn't have A's or Q's and with no diamond on the river I push the rest in happily.

What made me post this was the villains holding and although a win for me it made me question should I have played it differently? was I too reckless? Should I have had a better read from the sequences?

Any thoughts appreciated.

 
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Wed May 11, 2011, 11:47 PM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,836
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
I would have bet the turn. If they have either flush draw, I dont' want them see another card for free. It may cost you a river call (by KK especially), but in the long run, I think it's the right play to make.
 
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Thu May 12, 2011, 01:15 AM
(#3)
OMGCBF's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 48
I guess the concern all stemmed from fact he had kings and it was only through a favourable turn that I took the pot as I was waay behind at the flop against his actual holding. Although I just ran pokerstove on it and it seems even if he only gets to the flop with the top 10% of hands I have about 75% equity. (with 20% of hands its 81%)

The CR achieved the desired effect and made him clam up for the rest of the hand but I guess what I'm thinking is could it have been achieved with less? i.e. would a $4.5-$6 CR had the same effect?

Also does the fact that he called such a large CR give away his holding entirely? Sould I immediately be suspecting KK or AA? Would he make the same call with QK or QJ?

Looking at it from his perspective in hindsight knowing what he has, it seems clear he doesn't want to let go of the K's but with such a large CR is he immediately putting me on QQ or AA?

My final question is the most important. Is this kind of reasoning and analysis that I'm doing worthwhile or am I overanalysing the situation?
 
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Thu May 12, 2011, 02:58 AM
(#4)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
I don't like the check-raise. If he's c-betting AK or JJ you won't get called. This bet basically only serves to value own yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OMGCBF View Post
Although I just ran pokerstove on it and it seems even if he only gets to the flop with the top 10% of hands I have about 75% equity. (with 20% of hands its 81%)
Well first of all I doubt his 3b range is as high as 10%, but regardless... it's not about what hands he gets to the flop with, it's what hands he's calling a committing check-raise with. Assign a range for that and re-run your equity, and you'll see why I don't like the check-raise.

Quote:
The CR achieved the desired effect and made him clam up for the rest of the hand
No, it didn't. That would be the ace on the turn. He called a $9 check raise with only $6 behind, the hand was over already at that point, he's never folding, it's just about how to get the money in most effectively. Which, he should have done right on the flop tbh. But when the ace comes and you check it, he checks back in case the ace is scary to you (like KQ/QJ) so you don't get cold feed and put the rest in on the river.
 
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Thu May 12, 2011, 05:21 AM
(#5)
OMGCBF's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 48
Thks Dave,

So taking that into consideration then, and knowing this guy had a habit of dictating terms of the encounter how would it have played out otherwise.

If not CR on the flop then the only possibilities are. (assuming I'm not folding early with top pair)

1. Bet - Call, Possibly
2. Bet - Raise - Call, Perhaps medium possibility?
3. Check - Bet - Call, Quite likely

So which line would you suggest? #3 keeps the pot relatively small and keeps plenty in reserve for the turn and river but surely it gives me no more information about his strength of holding than his pre-flop re-raise, and does it put any kind of pressure on him at all?

Do not the #1 & #2 carry the risk of the pot getting out of hand? Because if I always end the round by handing him the initiative he can still dictate the terms on the next round?

How then does whichever line I take set me up for turn and river?
 
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Thu May 12, 2011, 12:57 PM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
I prefer a check/call simply because it keeps his range as wide as possible, giving him a chance to c-bet worse (AK, JJ). The pot is already largely out of control with an spr of under 5, but it's going to be really hard to get it all in vs. worse at this depth of money still... your best chance is letting him barrel it off if you think he will. If you think he won't, then probably check/call, check/fold the turn unless you improve.

Ultimately this should have been folded preflop, that's why you're in such a difficult spot post. Even when you flop to your hand it's difficult to play well out of position. We had a long discussion about calling 3b's with AQ in cash games a few months back in this forum, I know on the surface it may seem weak folding AQ to a 3b but over time you find it's just not profitable to continue unless your opponent is really bad or massively exploitable somehow. And it's particularly tough to play this hand well out of position.
 

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