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Why can't USA players access "Freeroll"

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Why can't USA players access "Freeroll" - Mon May 16, 2011, 05:58 PM
(#1)
PDechenne's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 4
WhiteStar
Is it the US Government stopping us from playing, or are we being discriminated against by being from the "USA"??
 
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Reply from "PokerStars" a month ago - Mon May 16, 2011, 05:59 PM
(#2)
PDechenne's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 4
WhiteStar
> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 21:01:43 -0400
> From: support@pokerstars.eu
> To: ** E-mail address deleted **
> Subject: PokerStars Support - US
>
> Hello Philip,
>
> Thank you for contacting PokerStars.
>
> We regret to inform you that in light of recent developments,
> PokerStars is no longer offering real money play to US residents,
> or residents of US territories.
>
> We are currently assessing the situation, and will communicate
> with all of our players as soon as possible.
>
> We apologize for the inconvenience this is causing.
>
> Regards,
>
> Vielka
> PokerStars Support Team
>

Last edited by TrumpinJoe; Mon May 16, 2011 at 09:06 PM..
 
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Mon May 16, 2011, 07:47 PM
(#3)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
BronzeStar
Pokerstars doesn't want to face any additional legal issues with the US government so they do not want any US players to have any any amount of real money on their site at the moment (and foreseeable future). Freerolls that have real money rewards would reward US players real money, so those are off limits as well. We can still play 'play money' games though...
 
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Mon May 16, 2011, 08:29 PM
(#4)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
i actually have an oppinion on this. if i understand things right, US players are not allowed to DEPOSIT money into the site, which isn't required to play a freeroll tourney either in the US or any other place in the world, yet people from outside the US dont have to have a real money accout to play freerolls, so the exclusion of US players does seem to me to be somewhat descriminatory. if i never make a DEPOSIT, then it seems to me that no laws have even been close to being broken. if i never do anything but WITHDRAW, like any non US player has a chance to do as well, then it does leave a bit of a bad taste in my mouth...... just mho for what little its worth.............stack em high! MT
 
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Mon May 16, 2011, 09:25 PM
(#5)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
if you look at it from pokerstars side would you open a business where you could never collect money only give it out ??hmmm i think not.

good luck

 
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Tue May 17, 2011, 12:19 AM
(#6)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,286
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemetdennis View Post
if you look at it from pokerstars side would you open a business where you could never collect money only give it out ??hmmm i think not.

good luck

Gotta love the logic HD.


 
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Tue May 17, 2011, 12:55 AM
(#7)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Dennis makes a great point here. Look Stars didn't do,or want this to happen. But seeing as the US Government just made it a no go for any US players to deposit on Stars for however long it takes for this to be litigated (and that could be forever,as in we're done here....I hope not,I think it won't turn out that way but it's a coin flip either way IMO) then,as Dennis correctly points out,Stars would have to be idiots of the first order to allow players who can't add their own money into games on the site access to games where they can win money. Plus if you stretch your point out,well if you were to make a Round 2 and win money wouldn't ANY game you play with that money be a freeroll essentially? Since you're not risking your own money,but instead money that you won?

And I'm sure the government has figured that little angle out as well so I'm betting the injunction against US players playing for cash includes ALL games that could possibly have any cash in the mix whatsoever.
 
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Tue May 17, 2011, 07:22 AM
(#8)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemetdennis View Post
if you look at it from pokerstars side would you open a business where you could never collect money only give it out ??hmmm i think not.

good luck

you're not thinking it through.... they most certainly would be collecting money from us in the form of rake as soon as we played w/ moneys won (just like non US players) PS doesn't collect from deposits no matter where they're from, so this argument doesn't hold a drop of water...and yes mox, i also believe if we've never deposited money but only built bankrolls originating from freeroll winnings, then we should be allowed to play real money rings or tourneys w/ that " free" (earned) stake....as everyone else can also do... stack em high!.....MT like i said... just mho

Last edited by mtnestegg; Tue May 17, 2011 at 07:33 AM.. Reason: left out
 
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Tue May 17, 2011, 09:19 AM
(#9)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnestegg View Post
you're not thinking it through.... they most certainly would be collecting money from us in the form of rake as soon as we played w/ moneys won (just like non US players)
Collecting rake from your own money sure sounds like the business idea of the year. There will be a bunch of new sites opening up with that one

Here is the statement from the US attorney's office; it should remove any doubt as to why US players cannot play on Pokerstars for real money or anything of value:

Quote:
The U.S. Attorney’s Office stated: “The Complaint, a related Indictment, and a related Restraining Order issued against multiple bank accounts utilized by the companies and their payment processors do not prohibit the companies from refunding players’ money. Nevertheless, this agreement will facilitate the return of money so that players can register their refund requests directly with Pokerstars and Full Tilt Poker. Under the terms of the agreements with PokerStars and Full Tilt Poker, the companies agreed that they would not allow for, facilitate, or provide the ability for players located in the United States to engage in playing online poker for ‘real money’ or any other thing of value. The agreements allow for PokerStars and Full Tilt Poker to use the pokerstars.com and fulltiltpoker.com domain names to facilitate the withdrawal of U.S. players’ funds held in account with the companies. The deposit of funds by U.S. players is expressly prohibited. In addition, the agreements do not prohibit, and, in fact, expressly allow for, PokerStars and Full Tilt Poker to provide for, and facilitate, players outside of the United States to engage in playing online poker for real money. The agreements also require the appointment of an independent Monitor to verify PokerStars’ and Full Tilt Poker’s compliance with the agreements. The Government stands to enter the same agreement with Absolute Poker if it so chooses.”
TC
 
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Tue May 17, 2011, 10:46 AM
(#10)
PokeGod185's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 38
as topthecat's post shows the ban isnt for depositing money its simply for gambling with or for real money (anything of value) on poker sites. it doesnt matter if its with your own deposited money or the poker sites freeroll money you simply cant gamble with or for real money on poker sites.
i think it sucks. yea theres less competition now, not that it matter in my case anyway , but i miss the extra players from the US. it was fun when there was 1300-1500+ players per tourney.
maybe the head of the US attorney's office used to work for a poker site and got sacked and this is his way of revenge lol
 
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Tue May 17, 2011, 12:09 PM
(#11)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by topthecat View Post
Collecting rake from your own money sure sounds like the business idea of the year. There will be a bunch of new sites opening up with that one

Here is the statement from the US attorney's office; it should remove any doubt as to why US players cannot play on Pokerstars for real money or anything of value:



TC
thnx top... i figured i must've been mis. or (un)informed about it being about depositing funds. it seems, i guess that it's only the muckity mucks, polititions, rapists and murderers of the world that can use loopholes in laws for their own means.... such is life i guess, just gets under my skin. that's all... and by the by thats exactly how i started my BR whith a twenty dollar freeroll win that went to $300 in a week... not using proper BR managment obviously but none the less......they DID collect plenty of rake from me and the others at my tables stack em high!....MT

Last edited by mtnestegg; Tue May 17, 2011 at 12:18 PM.. Reason: left out
 
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Tue May 17, 2011, 03:39 PM
(#12)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnestegg View Post
you're not thinking it through.... they most certainly would be collecting money from us in the form of rake as soon as we played w/ moneys won (just like non US players) PS doesn't collect from deposits no matter where they're from, so this argument doesn't hold a drop of water...and yes mox, i also believe if we've never deposited money but only built bankrolls originating from freeroll winnings, then we should be allowed to play real money rings or tourneys w/ that " free" (earned) stake....as everyone else can also do... stack em high!.....MT like i said... just mho
so lets think this through, they get to collect rake from their own money what would the rate of profit be on that ?
so even if the govn. said let them play but no deposit why would pokerstars do it ?
if you think about it why do they need us the rest of the world is still playing and paying rake?
there is no business that i know of that just wants to be the good guy their only way to stay in business is to make profit and there are people that are playing more (and paying more rake) do to u.s. player not playing
so as you can see this does hold a few drops of water
good luck

 
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Tue May 17, 2011, 05:55 PM
(#13)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
ok.... they were plenty happy to do so b4 B Friday, but ok.....
 
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Tue May 17, 2011, 06:08 PM
(#14)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnestegg View Post
ok.... they were plenty happy to do so b4 B Friday, but ok.....
due to a percent of people were going to deposit and pay rake with that money
they are here to make money not just friends

 
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Tue May 17, 2011, 07:29 PM
(#15)
Toonarmy1566's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 657
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemetdennis View Post
so lets think this through, they get to collect rake from their own money what would the rate of profit be on that ?
so even if the govn. said let them play but no deposit why would pokerstars do it ?
if you think about it why do they need us the rest of the world is still playing and paying rake?
there is no business that i know of that just wants to be the good guy their only way to stay in business is to make profit and there are people that are playing more (and paying more rake) do to u.s. player not playing
so as you can see this does hold a few drops of water
good luck

the free money that usa players won, meant that other players had to deposit to play, therefore pokerstars made money no matter what,and they are still making money, because they have start taking extras off the tournies, and i bet if the usa players are allowed back,they dont drop the prices neither, GO LAKERS, GO DUCKS GO FK YOURSELF
 
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Tue May 17, 2011, 07:30 PM
(#16)
Toonarmy1566's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 657
That last post was a joke btw
 
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Tue May 17, 2011, 07:45 PM
(#17)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toonarmy1566 View Post
the free money that usa players won, meant that other players had to deposit to play, therefore pokerstars made money no matter what,and they are still making money, because they have start taking extras off the tournies, and i bet if the usa players are allowed back,they dont drop the prices neither, GO LAKERS, GO DUCKS GO FK YOURSELF
good luck with that all in preflop with jj
hahahahahahahaha

 
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Tue May 17, 2011, 07:54 PM
(#18)
Toonarmy1566's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 657
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemetdennis View Post
good luck with that all in preflop with jj
hahahahahahahaha

it didnt matter to me, i got the ticket by finishing 1st in a £2k daily freeroll along with £80.33p lololololololololllllll
 
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Thu May 19, 2011, 05:52 AM
(#19)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnestegg View Post
ok.... they were plenty happy to do so b4 B Friday, but ok.....
Yeah dude but you're missing one big thing here----Freerolls were a way to get peeps sucked in that may very well end up depositing. Think of them as like free samples at an ice cream shop,candy store or whatever. The peeps playing the Freerolls are going to fall into distinct groups:

The just here for fun crowd--will never deposit.

The talented grinders--will quite possibly grind out a small BR through freerolling it,build that up and avoid a Busto variance run and never deposit. Not a whole Hell of alot of them.

The grind a pennyroll,get hooked and go Busto crowd--probably a much larger group than the grind and never deposit one. These players will get some coinage from Freerolls,lose it and THEN deposit (because they got the hook set in them from that bit of action>

The eager beavers-- These are the players who get in the Freerolls,maybe win a couple tickets to Round 2's,come close to an ITM there,or even get a small cash,look around at what the site offers,see all the micro options and think "Well Hell,how much trouble can I get in for $10,$25,$50 or so?". There are a boatload of these (or were before we got jobbed).

I hear what you're saying man but when the Freerolls were playable for US players before I'm thinking for every FR player who ended up becoming a cash player and never deposited thanks to money won in the FR's there were 20 who got hooked and saw their start be in the FR's and became a depositer. It was the classic case of you have to spend money to make money scenario. They CANNOT,at present, make so much as a dime off a US player. They would have to be dunces to let us play if they could.
 
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Thu May 19, 2011, 01:07 PM
(#20)
ssuglia's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,393
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie Pip View Post
Yeah dude but you're missing one big thing here----Freerolls were a way to get peeps sucked in that may very well end up depositing. Think of them as like free samples at an ice cream shop,candy store or whatever. The peeps playing the Freerolls are going to fall into distinct groups:

The just here for fun crowd--will never deposit.

The talented grinders--will quite possibly grind out a small BR through freerolling it,build that up and avoid a Busto variance run and never deposit. Not a whole Hell of alot of them.

The grind a pennyroll,get hooked and go Busto crowd--probably a much larger group than the grind and never deposit one. These players will get some coinage from Freerolls,lose it and THEN deposit (because they got the hook set in them from that bit of action>

The eager beavers-- These are the players who get in the Freerolls,maybe win a couple tickets to Round 2's,come close to an ITM there,or even get a small cash,look around at what the site offers,see all the micro options and think "Well Hell,how much trouble can I get in for $10,$25,$50 or so?". There are a boatload of these (or were before we got jobbed).

I hear what you're saying man but when the Freerolls were playable for US players before I'm thinking for every FR player who ended up becoming a cash player and never deposited thanks to money won in the FR's there were 20 who got hooked and saw their start be in the FR's and became a depositer. It was the classic case of you have to spend money to make money scenario. They CANNOT,at present, make so much as a dime off a US player. They would have to be dunces to let us play if they could.
Well said Mox.

Top also hit on a major point as well:

Quote:
The U.S. Attorney’s Office stated: “The Complaint, a related Indictment, and a related Restraining Order issued against multiple bank accounts utilized by the companies and their payment processors do not prohibit the companies from refunding players’ money. Nevertheless, this agreement will facilitate the return of money so that players can register their refund requests directly with Pokerstars and Full Tilt Poker. Under the terms of the agreements with PokerStars and Full Tilt Poker, the companies agreed that they would not allow for, facilitate, or provide the ability for players located in the United States to engage in playing online poker for ‘real money’ or any other thing of value. The agreements allow for PokerStars and Full Tilt Poker to use the pokerstars.com and fulltiltpoker.com domain names to facilitate the withdrawal of U.S. players’ funds held in account with the companies. The deposit of funds by U.S. players is expressly prohibited. In addition, the agreements do not prohibit, and, in fact, expressly allow for, PokerStars and Full Tilt Poker to provide for, and facilitate, players outside of the United States to engage in playing online poker for real money. The agreements also require the appointment of an independent Monitor to verify PokerStars’ and Full Tilt Poker’s compliance with the agreements. The Government stands to enter the same agreement with Absolute Poker if it so chooses.”
It wasn't Pokerstars' idea to restrict Americans from playing in freerolls. It's part of their agreement in allowing Americans to cash out their balances.
 

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