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table change?

 
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table change? - Tue May 24, 2011, 12:01 AM
(#1)
PLaws62's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 329
played three touneys tonight,first two was very bad,minus points in both ,then on the third ,i started getting some great hands built up a nice stack,6thousand,was at a table with some sitting out and getting hands,then i was moved to another table and got nothing ,here was a hand that started my downfall

Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner


what is the need to change a table just as players have started winning a few hands?
 
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Tue May 24, 2011, 10:45 PM
(#2)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Table changes are made in MTT play to balance the number of players at tables only. They are a necessary thing, as the play dynamic at a short handed table is far different from a full ring table. Any "imbalance" in play conditions tends to result in some players gaining (or losing) equity" in the tournament overall.

There ARE events where there is no table changes; these are "shoot out" events. In those events, each individual table plays down to 1, 2, or 3 remaining entrants, and only when ALL tables have reached their target number do the tables re-consolidate to full ring play. Thereafter, play continues, either for another round of "eliminations", or as in a normal final table situation.

Since staying at one table will tend to benefit your decision process (as you will generally have more info on opponents), one of the things I try to do when I play LIVE MTTs is find out the table "bust order". There are different methods used to consolidate play across the event, and since you should want to know how long a time you are likely to stay at a given table BEFORE you consider any "image" plays, you should be aware of the "mechanics" of table consolidation.

FIRST:
There are 2 ways you will be "moved" when you are in an MTT- when your table busts, or when you are moved to bring a "short" table up to a number closer to a full ring amount.

NEXT:
Tables will generally start with either 9 or 10 players at a "full ring".
No table should be busted until the number of tables reaches this formula: X / Y = Z - 2
X = remaining players
Y = number of tables in play
Z = number of players at a full ring

If you started at full ring play of 10 player tables, with 120 entrants, and 12 tables, you should not see any tables bust fully until there are 88 players (full ring = 10).

FINALLY:
You may be moved though, without your table fully busting. This will be done by casino personnel whenever ANY single table falls to a number, 2 players below a full ring. There is generally a "table order" for the tables which will move 1 player to a table that has fallen 2 below a full ring, but some casinoes do not establish this beforehand. Instead, they choose to randomly select from all tables still at a full ring number, and the randomly selected table moves 1 player to the table which has fallen 2 below a full ring, thus creating 2 x tables 1 palyer "short".

(Note: usually it is the player who is UTG which is moved. This is because it prevents anyone from paying"extra" blinds, or being mvoed to a more dis-advantageous position form which they started.)

While I am NOT certain of this fact (Stars does not publish bust order info that I know of), it seems Stars elects to bust tables, as well as move players to consolidate player numbers, starting at the HIGHEST numbered tables in the event. This would tend to mean that your chances of being moved would be much greater in a 150 table event if you are at table 144, rather than table 3.

If you simply make the effort to ASK (in a live event) about bust order, you can generally get the info you need to assess how likely you are to be moved in a live event; this is a minor factor overall, but is something you should try to ascertain.

NOW...

The implication of your post here seems to be that somehow your table move is related to your later "bad luck". If you firmly believe that, fine- you are wrong. If you do believe in things such as this, "lucky seats", "hot runs", "bad mojo", or whatever, you are falling into the worst sort of "results oriented thinking", and minimizing the importance of YOUR DECISIONS on the outcome of the game.

The only thing you really need to concern yourself with regarding the effect of a table change is how you formulate your strategy for playing against the NEW opponents, and what those new opponents may think of your play at the new table. Part of MTT "luck", comes from landing at a table which is favorable for your particular play style, or landing at one with a lot of bad players who you can out-play. Worrying about table moves beyond these factors is a waste of time.

Sure, luck is a part of poker, but bad luck or good luck are factors beyond your control. These things will happen regardless of what seat you happen to occupy. Trying to find "reasons" within any changes in the short term variance that luck brings is a futile endeavour, and takes away from the time you could better spend analyizing things you CAN control: your decisions.

As far as I can see, your decisions in the hand you show are reasonable:

In LP, you will tend to WANT "action" with a hand like JJ, so that min raise is not entirely without reason (although I'd be more inclined to raise to a total of 2.5x BB myself at a table I've no info on).

When the short stacked BB ships a tiny amount over the top, it is an obvious call for you.

The short stack got all-in as approximately a 70/30 dog, and hit lucky on the flop- it happens.

Trying to assign "blame" for the bad luck you saw here is more likely to lead to future degradation in your decisions if you cannot simply accept the fact that it happens.

Get over it.

Worry about the things you can control.

Last edited by JDean; Tue May 24, 2011 at 10:52 PM..
 
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Thu May 26, 2011, 06:48 PM
(#3)
PLaws62's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 329
thanks jdean,i should have waited and tried to get a read on the new players ,i hate jj it was just the sudden turn around in style and play ,and thanks that was a lot of reading ,thankyou for the time you spent
 
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Thu May 26, 2011, 07:25 PM
(#4)
brkn80's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 440
PL do a search for JDean in the forum he has put up many many MANY posts that you will find helps your game.He has helped my understanding of how to play NLHE as much as anyone else I have watched or chatted with.
 
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Thu May 26, 2011, 07:56 PM
(#5)
ssuglia's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,393
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by brkn80 View Post
PL do a search for JDean in the forum he has put up many many MANY posts that you will find helps your game.He has helped my understanding of how to play NLHE as much as anyone else I have watched or chatted with.
Just make sure you have lots of free time... JD has been known to write some rather long posts! But they are worth the read.
 
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Thu May 26, 2011, 08:27 PM
(#6)
brkn80's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssuglia View Post
Just make sure you have lots of free time... JD has been known to write some rather long posts! But they are worth the read.

Ain't that the truth
 

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