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Was this an awful call???

 
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Was this an awful call??? - Thu May 26, 2011, 11:33 PM
(#1)
1*stunna*99's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 3
Im railing my mate in the 2.20 turbo sng for 10k earlier on this evening.
He's running deep about 200 to go out of 7600 players. He's doing alright had about 40k in chips. He's in late position one before the cut off i think....anyway he moves all in with A6os blinds are 1500/3000 trying to grind his stack up. Its folded to the SB who has the same amount of chips who instant snap calls him with pocket 5s. The A6 won (hit the ace on the turn) and he messaged me saying 'that was an awful call, calling there with 5s'. I was like look its not really an 'awful' call cuz prior to that hand hes been stealing blinds.

My argument was that in this stage of the tourni with blinds getting big most likely in a low buy-in tourni like this most people are pushin all in with any ace pre flop in late position or even a hand like K9. Plus he pushed in pre flop quite a few times so if ive got any pair especially on the blinds against him im gonna call him because the likelihood is that im in the lead about a 60/40

His argument was that because its a low buy-in tourni its a bad call because he cant call me with 5s on that spot. If it was a bigger buy-in tourni the players there in this part of the tourni will be trying to grind there stack by pushing in with marginal hands so you can call with 5s in that spot (i think he was basically saying because its a low buy-in tourni its a donk call but if it was a bigger buy-in its the right call, as if all players who play higher stake tournis are better....i hope i got this right lol) He had many other things to say about EV and all sorts technical which i cant remember lol

But i just see it as a standard play in the spot that he was in no matter how much the buy-in is or whether the person im playing against has a bigger bankroll or not or am i being naive...

What do use think??

Last edited by 1*stunna*99; Thu May 26, 2011 at 11:40 PM..
 
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Fri May 27, 2011, 12:02 AM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,814
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
It's an ok call. If you think your opponent has 2 overcards (which they almost always will have with 55), then as long as they don't have a higher pocket pair, then you're ahead in a coinflip (about 55% equity depending on the suits with those exact cards... 52% vs 2 random overcards).

If you're going to win tournies, you will need to hit some of the coinflips in them.
At that time of the tourney, you need to be chipping up to try to get to a final table and you want to do it by putting your chips in when you're ahead.

The one thing that I would do... is that if it was a bubble for a pay-level, then I'd use a couple seconds of clock, to be sure that I got the higher amount if I lost the hand.
 
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Fri May 27, 2011, 12:12 AM
(#3)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
I think it's a bad call. When you ponder calling an all in you need to consider a few things. First, stack sizes. How much will a call and loss hurt you. How much does a win help? Also, position of the raiser, his likely range of hands, etc. Now your own hand. With 55 what are you beating? 22, 33, 44, and , 3x, 4x, and 5x. Against everything else you're flipping or crushed. What sort of hands might this guy push with? How does 55 play against that range? Are you getting correct pot odds against this range? If you're in the money or close to it even if calling is +chipEV, I doubt it's +$EV.

Another thing to think about is your skill level. While a call here might be neutral or slightly +EV you should be able to find better spots if you're a good player. No reason to flip for your life in a neutralish situation when you can find a spot to shove all in yourself.

I also think the shove was pretty bad. If indeed he's been stealing a lot, he should probably tighten up and play better hands. And if you're going to get called that wide, you should definitely tighten your shoving range. Now he should rely on his loose image to get paid with a big hand, but refrain from pushing marginal stuff. This would be a great time to pick up aces or kings because he will get snapped by pocket eights or AJ. A6 off is just too weak to risk that stack on. If it were suited I might go for it, but A6 is still probably the worst ace to push. A2-A5 can make the wheel, and A7+ are better than A6.

So I think A6o is a fold and 55 is a fold to a shove. I think the rest of the table had to LOVE watching both these -EV plays as the +EV rains on them.
 
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Fri May 27, 2011, 12:27 AM
(#4)
1*stunna*99's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 3
This is what i was more moving to the fact that he has been pushing quite a lot so thats why i didnt see the 5s as such an 'awful' call as he put it. I was looking at the table and it seemed to be tight with buttons not really stealing, SBs folding when its being folded around to them by nearly every player so i can understand why he took the loose approach but for me it was one two many and as you said after 2 or even 3 pushes he should of tightened up and he would more likely got called of too a weaker hand next time he shoved.

Thanks Guys.

Looking forward to anymore comments
 

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