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8-game 6 handed

8-game 6 handed - Sat Jun 04, 2011, 10:12 AM
pokerstar671's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,206
This table was full but every one left right before this hand.
I was playing and this guy kept raising during the nl holdem part of the game so since I was the big blind I decided to call him. When the flop came out he bet a dollar I thought he might have an ace so I decided to raise him to see what he would do. I thought to myself if he calls he probably has the ace and Ill just check fold. But the king came out and he checked so I thought my hand was good. After he called my raise on the turn I thought damn maybe he has a king also something like k10 or kj. So the river came out and I thought I really had this one. Man this guy sure did sucker me. Cost me all my money. Can someone please review this and give me some advice.

Limit, $0.10/$0.25 USD) - 2011/06/04 9:25:25 ET
Table 'Platzeck IV' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: custilleta ($13.33 in chips)
Seat 5: NOX118 ($25.30 in chips)
Seat 6: pokerstar671 ($19.20 in chips)
NOX118: posts small blind $0.10
pokerstar671: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to pokerstar671 [8h Kc]
custilleta: folds
NOX118: raises $0.50 to $0.75
pokerstar671: calls $0.50
*** FLOP *** [As Qc Ks]
NOX118: bets $1
pokerstar671: raises $1.75 to $2.75
NOX118: calls $1.75
*** TURN *** [As Qc Ks] [Kd]
NOX118: checks
pokerstar671: bets $3.25
NOX118: calls $3.25
*** RIVER *** [As Qc Ks Kd] [8s]
NOX118: bets $4.75
pokerstar671: raises $5.25 to $10
NOX118: raises $5.25 to $15.25
pokerstar671: calls $2.45 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($2.80) returned to NOX118
*** SHOW DOWN ***
NOX118: shows [Kh Ah] (a full house, Kings full of Aces)
pokerstar671: shows [8h Kc] (a full house, Kings full of Eights)
NOX118 collected $37.40 from pot
pokerstar671 said, "damn"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $38.40 | Rake $1
Board [As Qc Ks Kd 8s]
Seat 1: custilleta (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: NOX118 (small blind) showed [Kh Ah] and won ($37.40) with a full house, Kings full of Aces
Seat 6: pokerstar671 (big blind) showed [8h Kc] and lost with a full house, Kings full of Eights

Something is wrong with the replayer its not showing the amount being bet.

Last edited by pokerstar671; Sat Jun 04, 2011 at 10:31 AM..
Sat Jun 04, 2011, 10:32 AM
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Normally, there are 16 ways you can draw AK from the deck. Here, after seeing the turn, there are only 3. There are 9 ways he could have a better boat than you by the river (I think; I've been up all night, so don't trust my math right now). There are 16 ways he could have flopped a straight. Do you think he would behave the way he did with a flopped straight? If so, you were ahead of his range.

3-handed, AK is a pretty rare hand. I wouldn't necessarily bet, call, or raise that flop, since the guy could pretty easily have an ace, but I don't really hate committing to the hand after you turn trips, and I hate it even less after you river a boat. I can't really see how the action went down (for some reason the replayer's not showing any chips), but it doesn't seem like you made any absolutely horrible errors. If you flat called out of position preflop, that might not have been good. But losing to an overboat in 3-handed Hold'em is just bad luck.
Sat Jun 04, 2011, 10:39 AM
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Yeah, I wouldn't raise the flop. That's because you'll fold every worse hand than yours, and you'll get called by only better hands. That means you wouldn't be able to extract value when you make trips on the turn, and your opponent doesn't have a boat. So you were losing value by raising the flop.

Given that the guy bet and called a raise on the flop, I might actually just call the river, as well. I might be wary of the overboat there. And if the guy did make a straight, he likely wouldn't call a river raise. So you could have possibly done without raising the river, but that's debatable.
Sat Jun 04, 2011, 11:58 AM
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,836
I agree that raising the flop was what got you into trouble. Your opponent flopping 2 pair, bet, then you raised him, which he obviously with 2 pair will call.

On the turn, he gets the 2nd nuts (only hand beating him is AA). If I were in that situation, with my opponent raising, I'd check it too and hope they bet into my monster hand. I do agree with you betting the turn, as you hit a set and need to see where you're at. If you had not raised the flop, he may have led out on the turn... by which you'd see he had a better hand and could have gotten out of the pot then.

On the river, yes you hit a full house, but his bet that was almost 50% larger than any previous bet in the hand and seeing how there was a pair on the board, that would scare me bigtime. You did have a full house, but with the cards on the board, there are a few hands that can beat you (AA, AK, KQ).... and with his betting pattern, ALL of those can be in his range. Really, the only hands you can beat that I'd put in his range are J 10 or AQ and if they had those, they should raise you on the turn to see where they are at (if J 10) or would not bet that much on the river with just 2 pair.
Sat Jun 04, 2011, 01:58 PM
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
Why not just 3-bet pre and fold to a 4-bet? K8 offsuit is a pretty crappy postflop hand. Can't make a straight, can't make a flush, and with so much high card equity you are super prone to making mistakes and folding the best hand when he bluffs you with some small cards. It's also got some pretty terrible reverse implied odds. By 3-betting pre you'll know where you stand as your hand has horrible equity against a 3-bet-calling or 4-betting range. If he calls you need a miracle flop to continue. If he 4-bets you it's an easy fold and you've only lost about $2 trying to pick up that 75¢.
Sat Jun 04, 2011, 05:48 PM
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Originally Posted by oriholic View Post
Why not just 3-bet pre and fold to a 4-bet?
The quick answer: Because the OP is in position, and playing 3-handed (short answer over). There's no reason to get all the action done preflop. Flat calling keeps the pot small and allows the OP to actually outplay the villain on betting rounds where it has a legitimate impact on their winrate. K8 could win a big pot, but it never will if you 3bet pre.

Additionally, a big issue I have with, "betting to see where you're at," which applies here is this: If you 3bet preflop, you're looking for a fold or a 4bet. If you get a fold, you win the current pot. But you get no added value in that pot. It remains very small. If you get 4bet, you just fold. And if you get a call, then you're probably done with the hand, too. When you 3bet here, this is a classic case where you're value-cutting yourself by folding out the bottom of your opponent's range, and only getting action from the top. Further to that, you're making a pretty scared play by looking for reasons to fold your hand, which is what I get the impression you're sort of advising the OP do, ori, without necessarily realizing it. When I read your post, I get the impression that the between-the-lines message is, "Look for a reason to drop your hand ASAP."

The key to knowing that calling is okay is the knowledge that the villain should be opening way wider than Kx here. Kx should have a great deal of post-flop equity. Remember in the 'Great Hands' videos, Eugene Katchalov flat called with Q4o in basically the same spot and the OP here, because he thought it would be profitable to play two-thirds of hands dealt to him heads-up, in position, on pretty deep money. This hand is way stronger. Kx is playable.

Last edited by PanickyPoker; Sat Jun 04, 2011 at 05:52 PM..

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