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Working on Hand reading

 
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Working on Hand reading - Sun Jun 05, 2011, 01:45 PM
(#1)
OMGCBF's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 48
Hi all,

I'm really trying to practice and improve my hand reading ability.

The following hand from a cash game this evening.

Most of the players at the table seem pretty passive (Its middle of the day sunday for the Euro's)

From the CO I have JTs, good enough to open for a raise. Button calls me.

at this point i'm putting him on 2 broadways or a low pair, perhaps suited conn's. Slim chance of a flat call with a big pair.

On the flop I hit top pair with a mediocre kicker. Lead out for a C-Bet about 2/3 pot.

Villain calls, no big deal, his range doesn't change much except I remove most of the suited connectors except perhaps 45.

Turn brings a K, which can easily hit his possible broadways, I decide to play it cautiously and Check, he checks back. Now i'm fairly confidant he doesn't have a K or a low set, probably not even a high pair, most likely is low pair or unpaired broadway, slim possibility of JJ or QQ and he was really passive with my original raise and the K scared him as much as me.

River brings an 8, no flushes no straights on board. I really think my 2nd pair is good but don't want to risk leading out in case I'm wrong, opt to check to him again. He thinks for a second and bets a little less than 1/3 the pot. I think through the hand and decide he most likely doesn't have anything and make a fairly easy call.

I'm fairly sure my thinking was correct but how about the actions? Is it the optimal way to play this hand or could I have done better?

Thanks

 
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Sun Jun 05, 2011, 02:26 PM
(#2)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Hey, OMGCBF - nice call! I think I'm kind of where you're at - where whats making the hand reading more of a challenge for me is when people mask their hands ... show strength when there's weakness, and then show weakness when there's strength. Or show strength when there's weakness, and then they hit and then they show strength when there's strength. Or show strength all the way along, but represent soooo well you just don't know.

I'm finding it kind of a two-fold learning process to, I guess we're supposed to be doing that as well to mask our own hands. I haven't really been playing with the thought of how I want my hands to be perceived by others. Maybe a little bit I've been doing this, but mostly I guess my thoughts have been on other peoples' hands. I'm probably losing a ton of value though ...

Anyways - no insights to offer ... just wanted to say that I thought that was a nice call!
 
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Sun Jun 05, 2011, 02:34 PM
(#3)
OMGCBF's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 48
Hey Sam,

Yeah I'm the same, I really want to get comfortable with level 2 thinking first before I try to tackle level 3.

Its funny that only a mere matter of a couple of weeks ago I thought I would never be able to read hands, it just seemed impossible. But, its true, you practice and you start to see improvement. Of course the more I learn the more I realise how little I know.
 
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Sun Jun 05, 2011, 02:50 PM
(#4)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMGCBF View Post
Hey Sam,

Yeah I'm the same, I really want to get comfortable with level 2 thinking first before I try to tackle level 3.

Its funny that only a mere matter of a couple of weeks ago I thought I would never be able to read hands, it just seemed impossible. But, its true, you practice and you start to see improvement. Of course the more I learn the more I realise how little I know.
Oh no, there's a level 3? Yikes! LOL

I like your last sentence - definitely!!! haha
 
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Sun Jun 05, 2011, 04:12 PM
(#5)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,836
(Super-Moderator)
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I would have bet the turn. You had 2nd pair and a flush draw, with 1 over on the board. Making a bet there will at worst case, let you know where you are in the hand (if they come over the top, they've more than likely got a K).

I'm shocked that with you checking the turn, that the opponent didn't make a decent sized bet there to try and steal it, right there. If I were him, your betting pattern makes it look to me that you either have a suited 10 or two missed high cards... like your opponent has. They probably put you on KQ or KJ suited and is why they bet the river.

I'd have also made a river bet if I were you... not making a value bet with your 10 will cost you in the long run... yes, they bet this time, but you'll lose out on more chips over time if you don't make the river value bet.
 
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Sun Jun 05, 2011, 04:41 PM
(#6)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMGCBF View Post
Of course the more I learn the more I realise how little I know.
Recognizing the limits of one's knowledge is the beginning of wisdom.
 
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Sun Jun 05, 2011, 05:45 PM
(#7)
jf70's Avatar
Since: Feb 2009
Posts: 88
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrumpinJoe View Post
Recognizing the limits of one's knowledge is the beginning of wisdom.
Another interesting statement is "The longest journey begins with a single step." And "be the change you want to be in the world".

Also, "an apple a day keeps the doctor away."

Just thought I'd mention it


More seriously, the turn play is very weak. If I had been the villain I would definitely have made a large-sized bet, and you probably would have seen the K in that. That's the problem with reading hands. If you bet there and I raise or call, you have more information about my cards, and you're in a good position either to fold (or - rarely - reraise, depending on your opponent) or to continue betting on the river. If you check though, you're essentially inviting a bet, so you won't be able to differentiate between a bluff or a good hand.

Last edited by jf70; Sun Jun 05, 2011 at 05:49 PM..
 
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Sun Jun 05, 2011, 06:33 PM
(#8)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
It's a great turn barrel card, you should be betting again on this turn card. As played, I agree with you the river is a super easy call. The villain is going to have air most of the time here or some small pair he thinks is good because you checked twice.
 
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Sun Jun 05, 2011, 11:39 PM
(#9)
OMGCBF's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 48
So is there a consensus of opinion there?

I should bet the turn, likely he folds there removing any possible draws, if he calls I can proceed with caution to the River and if he re-raises give credit for the K and get out?

Even if continung the hand as played, I should probably have lead out at the River trusting the read that he didn't have a K right?

Thanks
 
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Sun Jun 05, 2011, 11:59 PM
(#10)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,836
(Super-Moderator)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMGCBF View Post
Even if continung the hand as played, I should probably have lead out at the River trusting the read that he didn't have a K right?

Thanks
I agree... and it was the correct read.
 
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Mon Jun 06, 2011, 01:26 AM
(#11)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
As played I would probably make a value bet on the river. Reason being I'd think if he had air and he would pull the trigger on the turn and bet when you check to him, that's the whole point of floating. So I think he's more likely to have a weak made hand like a small pocket pair, that hopes you've missed and can bluff catch you. And the typical opponent checks that down, but calls if you bet.

With reads if he's more aggro then check/call is a better line, but more aggro player probably bets the turn.

In the end his line made no sense at all with AJ... well it made sense to him in his mind I'm sure, but in terms of good poker, not so much.
 

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