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Woodward vs. Eslami vs. Schleger

 
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Woodward vs. Eslami vs. Schleger - Thu Jun 09, 2011, 02:20 PM
(#1)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
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Check out this hand...what would you do?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmkoDXW4WdY
 
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Thu Jun 09, 2011, 02:27 PM
(#2)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
The commentary was pretty good for that hand; a lot of the probable reasoning behind the plays was explained. I think Mr. Pocket 33 was hoping for somebody to have an overpair there, because that's a pretty safe board for a pocket pair. I think for the most part, the play was pretty standard, although I'm not totally sure I would have stayed in the hand if I were the AK in position on the flop. It's hard to play ace-high, even on a safe board, in a multi-way pot when facing action.
 
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Thu Jun 09, 2011, 03:09 PM
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oriholic's Avatar
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Stacks were pretty deep. Around 90 BBs. I'd absolutely float AK suited in position with a backdoor flush draw. The first player has shown weakness by checking and I'm not worried about being check-raised off the best hand here.

I'm actually not totally sure what I would do if I had 33 here... I don't know how aggressive the other two players are so I don't know which flop line is better...

Check-calling the flop is certainly an option, as is bet-calling. I don't like the check-raise into two players--way too strong. While calling is strong, it doesn't narrow your range as much as raising. You might call 88 here if you don't believe them, but you wouldn't check-raise it. I think check-call and then re-evaluate on further streets. While there was no way he was getting stacks in, he could definitely get more value on later streets. The problem with flopping quads, especially on such a low dry board, is that you have the deck crippled and generally no one else has anything so you want them to catch up. If the flop were 33K he might have had a shot, as AK will usually call here, but it was 334.
 
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Thu Jun 09, 2011, 03:14 PM
(#4)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,517
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He played the quads well imo. If the stacks are shorter a slow play would be in order, but not sure how the stack sizes were (although the announcer implied they were deep enough for him to set mine pre). He wants to play a big pot, the way to build it is to raise like he did. They mucked because they didn't have anything, but if they don't, he doesn't rate to get much if any action from them on future streets anyway... he's trying to set up an overpair to the board stacking off. No one puts him on a 3 on that board, and it's a bad board for the AK type hands so it's one aggressive players like to rep and apply pressure on. Someone with JJ is at least calling the c/r and may come back over the top of it, facilitating a big pot. If he just calls the flop, and the turn is an overcard to their pocket pair, he'll have a hard time getting any more than minimal action.

I also would have liked a donk bet. Again no one puts him on a 3 leading into the preflop raiser and reraiser, it looks more like a marginal made hand like 88 trying to "see where they're at" (they might not believe he would be that bad though) or a small straight draw. Big pairs will raise his bet, and even the AK's might raise as hands like 88 will have a very hard time getting to showdown vs. pressure.

Either way, both lines are designed to build the pot. The only thing I don't like is taking actions like check/calling, which fails to build the pot. Again, that's fine if the effective stacks are small and we can reasonably get all in with only 1 or 2 streets of action max, but it sounds like here we need at least 3 streets, and a big pair will give them if not more, so I like his line.

Dave
 
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Thu Jun 09, 2011, 03:16 PM
(#5)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,517
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by oriholic View Post
I don't like the check-raise into two players--way too strong.
Check-raise does look stronger than betting out for sure, but depending on history these guys might read that as a deception, trying to look really strong to get them to fold.
 
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Thu Jun 09, 2011, 03:33 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
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The check-raise on the flop is viable, but if I'm holding quads there, I want to keep as many people in the pot as possible (while building it, as there was a late bet and call by the 3rd player on the flop)... hoping, hoping that they catch a piece of the board.
If it was me, I'd have checked, then make a smooth call keeping the other two in.. since there was action already on the flop. I'd have saved the raise until later in the hand and made a bet on the turn (raise if first to act bets).
 
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Thu Jun 09, 2011, 03:51 PM
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oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
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Again, need to know more about these guys. My original thinking was:

bet/raise > bet/call > check/call > check/raise But then I switched to a more passive outlook, thinking bet/calling is the superior play--Just because on such a small dry board there isn't much to represent. Put two to a suit or increase the other card and I think he's more likely to get some action just because it gives the players something to represent. Yes I want to build a pot with my monster but I also want to let aggressive players hang themselves here.

Really depends on image, history, etc. of course.
 

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