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What to do, What to do

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What to do, What to do - Fri Jun 10, 2011, 07:30 PM
(#1)
the_eagle23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 231
Ever find yourself playing good for let's say a week, and suddenly everything just turns upside down in a day, or even a matter of hours... Brutal. I've deposited about 3 times on pokerstars, 2 $25 dollar deposits and 1 $50, i managed to lose it in about 7 or 8 months. Then i decided to build a BR out of $0 and i did it twice. Managed to build them up to about $25 then whomp broke again I guess it really is MY fault, playing buy-ins out of my range for my BR. But somedays it just seems like nothing is going your way. Oh well i'm really gonna try to win big this time, wish me luck
 
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Fri Jun 10, 2011, 08:11 PM
(#2)
Swaxwell's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 315
Best of luck Eagle!

By the sounds of it you know full well what your problem is, but maybe you can do a bit more reading up on bankroll managemaent. There have been many pros that have gone busto at one point or another, but most haven't made it big wihout good BR skills. Check out Cowboy's posts for ideas on how to build a roll from scratch. There are also many other good posts on this issue.

My only advice would be not to bother making another deposit. I'm no expert and am still scraping by with a few $'s, but I am determined never to make a deposit to play online poker. I don't think there is any need, if you are willing to learn how to improve. I will only be tempted to deposit when I am confident of clearing the full $600 sign up bonus and still run at a profit.

Anyway good luck again, hope you fly high.
 
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Fri Jun 10, 2011, 09:29 PM
(#3)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swaxwell View Post
I will only be tempted to deposit when I am confident of clearing the full $600 sign up bonus and still run at a profit.
I think that there's logic behind this. When you're confident that you're able to consistently beat the money games without busting your roll, there is a very good reason to deposit; it speeds up your overall winnings over time. I remember that when Chris Ferguson tried his Ferguson Challenge for the first time, it took him about two years to complete it. That was because it took him roughly eight months to stabilize his bankroll at around $20. He continually busted his roll because of variance. If he had started with a $20 deposit, the whole process likely would have taken half the time. The reason regular people who make deposits bust them is because they don't have Ferguson's skill.

The point here is that, until you are capable of winning at money games, you should expect to lose at them. So it might benefit you to keep your deposits small for now, if you make any at all.
 
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Fri Jun 10, 2011, 10:38 PM
(#4)
Swaxwell's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 315
Sick post Panicky

Quote:
Originally Posted by PanickyPoker View Post
The point here is that, until you are capable of winning at money games, you should expect to lose at them
Even though on the surface this statement appears to be mind-numbingly obvious, I think it is actually quite profound. In fact I would go so far as to say that even when you are capable of winning at money games you should still expect to lose at them. Else what is the point of bankroll management?

For example if one enters a real money MTT, then surely they would hope to win, and should also be capable of winning, else there is no point in entering. But they should also expect to lose, as the odds are stacked against them, no matter what skill edge they might posses. That is why they have a bankroll, and mange that bankroll efficiently. But although they should expect to lose one particular event, they should also expect to win in the long term.

Until one has viable evidence that they can win in the long term, then depositing real money is tantamount to pissing it down the drain IMO. Might as well just buy a few more oat sodas. And the same goes for entering any event that a bankroll can’t handle. One might be capable of winning it, but should always expect to lose it. That’s why I never play the lottery; great pot odds, but –EV all day.

Anyway I’m rambling now, but thanks Panicky for some good food for thought.
 
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Sat Jun 11, 2011, 12:50 AM
(#5)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Hey eagle, do you have a HUD, and have you been taking Langolier's live training courses (or watching the videos)?

After I started taking the courses, not only have I stopped having to deposit money, I've actually been making some

I still have a laundry list of stuff I need to watch when I play though - like sometimes after a bad beat, I'll go on tilt and compound the problem and go wild. Or turn into a nit. It never occurs to me that somebody could possibly flop a flush ( !?! ), or the opposite - that somebody would raise with 3 to a flush on the flop with pocket 2's and no draw. Then, sometimes if I develop a stack I'll park it when probably I should be doing the opposite. Or somebody's raised from early position, but I've got a hand and I've got the stack and just can't help myself! And then I'm left in rough shape

Etc, etc ...

But the classes helped a lot ... maybe they'll work for you too if you have yet to check them out?

Last edited by TrustySam; Sat Jun 11, 2011 at 12:52 AM..
 
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Sat Jun 11, 2011, 08:54 AM
(#6)
the_eagle23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swaxwell View Post

By the sounds of it you know full well what your problem is.
And yes indeed i do know what my problem is The thing is is that i just get bored sticking to one kind of game. I try different games like cash games 90 ppl 45 ppl 180ppl 18ppl 9ppl you name it , i even tried omaha for a short while. And sometimes i just get frustrated because i can't win one. I think i need to stick to one game or maybe two that i think i'm best at and keep improving at it. And feel free to disagree For me now i think it would be either cash games, or 9 man and 45man sitngos. What do you guyz think?
 
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Sat Jun 11, 2011, 09:12 AM
(#7)
tombomb92's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 7
bankroll management is a crutial factor for poker if you cant follow it then you will find it difficult to be sucessfull depositng $25 here and there is great if you just play 1-2 times a month and if you lose o well if you win great

if you play regularly then you need bankroll management it is one of the most important things in poker if you ask any pro , and experianced player or grinders then they will all give you the same answer you need bankroll management to be sucessfull im going to take me or an example i use about a 1-2% buyin rule this meens i do not put more than 1-2% of my bankroll in to a game

so for example if i had a $25 bankroll i would be playing $0.25 45/90mans mixing in $0.50 45/90man turbos
then as the bankroll progresses i would then start to mix in $1 games and so on

another crutial element is not to say as soon as your bankroll hits $ XX.XX then i will only play these games

play lower levels you can beat them and take money from them i grind $3-$5 games normaly with a few shots at $11 games but i sometimes drop and play the 50c 45mans or $1 games as i know i can beat these quite easly and be sucessfull at them and the $6 for 1st adds to your bankroll and and when your playing new levels you need a fall back as things dont always just slot in to place , the downswings are bigger , the players tend to be better , the play becomes more advanced and you will become comfotable at these levels in time but what use is that if you have already lost your bankroll
 
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Sat Jun 11, 2011, 12:21 PM
(#8)
!!!111Dan's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,290
Interesting thread.
The advice you have received here concerning bankroll management is crucial.
Never really thought of the concept like you bring up here PP, concerning depositing and Jesus.


Quote:
Originally Posted by the_eagle23 View Post
And yes indeed i do know what my problem is The thing is is that i just get bored sticking to one kind of game. I try different games like cash games 90 ppl 45 ppl 180ppl 18ppl 9ppl you name it , i even tried omaha for a short while. And sometimes i just get frustrated because i can't win one. I think i need to stick to one game or maybe two that i think i'm best at and keep improving at it. And feel free to disagree For me now i think it would be either cash games, or 9 man and 45man sitngos. What do you guyz think?
Eagle, do you like, or do well at cash games? If so, try multi-tabling the .01/.02 just a bit. Maybe start with 2 since your br is small, but see if you can build up to 4. It will help you to keep from being bored, and allow you to play abc poker to start building your roll.
I never thought I could multi (not that 4 is like the 24 tablin' crazies) but once I did 2, then 3, 4 has a nice feel to it. I find that I don't mind the bad beats as much, because I'm busy w/ the other tables. I even had a week or so of many 90% favorites losing on the river..including a set of Q's losing to quad 7's on the river.....but really, it just gave me a truer feeling of how variance worked, and I moved on.
Sounds like you're on the right path..just keep to good br mgmt and keep learning.
 
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Sat Jun 11, 2011, 10:32 PM
(#9)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by !!!111Dan View Post
It will help you to keep from being bored
That was the best tip!! I tried it tonight and did better than usual I think! haha

Had a bad beat beat in a $1 turbo tourney and finished just out of the money, which was disappointing.

And then did that thing I keep doing in the PSO $1 monthly satellite (great hand, lesser kicker), and finished just out of the money in that.

So that was disappointing. But thought it went well (except for my usual thing). I've got a massive headache from having to concentrate on two things at once though. But kind of a neat experience

Will definitely have to try this again!
 
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Sat Jun 11, 2011, 11:09 PM
(#10)
ronh1967's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 376
hey eagle if your gonna try the 9man sit and goes mabe try the 50,50s,these are 10 player sitandgoes that pay half the players
 
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Sun Jun 12, 2011, 02:24 PM
(#11)
the_eagle23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by !!!111Dan View Post

Eagle, do you like, or do well at cash games? If so, try multi-tabling the .01/.02 just a bit. Maybe start with 2 since your br is small, but see if you can build up to 4. It will help you to keep from being bored, and allow you to play abc poker to start building your roll.
I never thought I could multi (not that 4 is like the 24 tablin' crazies) but once I did 2, then 3, 4 has a nice feel to it. I find that I don't mind the bad beats as much, because I'm busy w/ the other tables. I even had a week or so of many 90% favorites losing on the river..including a set of Q's losing to quad 7's on the river.....but really, it just gave me a truer feeling of how variance worked, and I moved on.
Sounds like you're on the right path..just keep to good br mgmt and keep learning.
i already do multi table most of the time, mostly 4 tables at the 1 and 2 cent level and i use to put one 2 and 5 cent one in and i did fairly well. And indeed i do enjoy playing cash games but i really like to play sitngo's. and i saw it as winning a 90 player or 180 player would put a huge increase to my BR, and i'm not wrong right But before i could actually win one my bankroll was dwindling and fast, my BR isn't big enough to play these i think, at the 25 cent and 50 cent yes but i always went with the higher buy-ins for more money Bad idea. I think i will grind cash tables and work my way up and won't stray away from it. Maybe just a couple of 180 player ones....... lol just kidding when i get the bankroll up maybe
 
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Sun Jun 12, 2011, 07:58 PM
(#12)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustySam View Post
That was the best tip!! I tried it tonight and did better than usual I think! haha

Had a bad beat beat in a $1 turbo tourney and finished just out of the money, which was disappointing.

And then did that thing I keep doing in the PSO $1 monthly satellite (great hand, lesser kicker), and finished just out of the money in that.

So that was disappointing. But thought it went well (except for my usual thing). I've got a massive headache from having to concentrate on two things at once though. But kind of a neat experience

Will definitely have to try this again!
I'm still recovering from yesterday LOL

It might be a little too much too soon for me. I'm still finding myself putting a lot of thought into my moves - plugging leaks and all that. But it was exciting to get that taste of what sort of potential lies in that next stage of play. Something to aim for in the future.
 

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