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Advice on these hands please?

 
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Advice on these hands please? - Mon Jun 13, 2011, 01:35 PM
(#1)
17oli17's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 5
WhiteStar
I've been playing hold'em quite a while but not much online, recently I've been trying to improve my game alot reading books playing as much as possible etc.. There's 2 hands here that i played pretty badly so any advice here would be great thanks

First hand



In this first hand we was in level 5 of the blinds and I'd been playing quite patiently and stealing blinds when possible, but hadn't been getting much value from my made hands i was often getting folds to my pre raise flops when i had good hands and so when i woke up to AA i decided to throw in a small raise.

This guy had been playing pretty well, however he was calling a lot of hands then check raising/re-raising after the flop, he seemed to have a pretty good read on players (he was quite chatty, calling players hands etc) and i figured he put me on a high pocket pair and was trying to bluff the flush, i see that it was in fact a bad call and that I probably should of made a bigger raise pre flop to get rid of him there and then and take the blinds, so i suppose the question is how would you play this hand?

Second hand



This hand i played even worse and I'd actually been playing pretty well so i have no excuses, I wake up up with AKo on the button and theres one limper and its folded round i make it 4BB and the blinds fold and the limper calls, this guys been playing fairly loose calling a lot of raises and folding if he doesn't hit. I put him on anything from A 10 down to maybe even 87s so when the flop comes Qh 9d Jh i decide to C-bet just over half pot, he raises me so i'm all in so i figure he must of hit (he's probably on QJs at best as he'll proabably raise anything else pre flop) i figure i have 9 outs 10's for straight K's and A's for top pair so i decide to call i'm getting about 2 to 1, He's on top pair with a low kicker so my outs calculations were correct but i didn't hit and i'm pretty sure now this was a terrible call. Any advice would be greatly apreciated as the way i played this and called is really bugging me.

P.S sorry if this is a really long post, first time i've posted.

Last edited by 17oli17; Mon Jun 13, 2011 at 02:59 PM..
 
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Mon Jun 13, 2011, 04:39 PM
(#2)
jf70's Avatar
Since: Feb 2009
Posts: 88
BronzeStar
Nah I think you played them pretty decently, and it's always nice to have a long post: the more information you give the better our answers are likely to be.

Your first hand I think was fine; it depends a little on the read and stuff but I can see him playing a variety of hands, including top pair and medium/high kicker, in the same way. There's really not much defense against low/medium pocket pairs in this situation, and unless you know your opponent is real solid and wouldn't risk half his stack on a pair you can't really play it differently.

The second one I kind of disagree. People use pot odds to justify calls a lot, but frankly even if a situation is +eV in the long term it's not going to do you a lot of good if you're out of the tournament. His check-raise was a really good move here, your equity was 38% or so and you had to call only 32% of the total pot, but with no pair here you are probably better off folding imo. You're rarely going to snag a bluff here and if you're going out 61.7% of the time on a hand, regardless of the odds, it simply makes more sense (to me) to fold and find a better spot. This of course is different in SnGs or final tables where ICM calculations come into play, and very different in cash games where +eV is all that matters (as long as your basic assumptions are correct). In an MTT, if you never fold the best hand you're probably playing too risky and will make it deep much more rarely.

Of course this depends on the blinds and your stack size but I think it might have been a better move to actually just check the flop again and see what he does on the turn. The pot size was over half your stack; your c-bet basically was close to representing pot commitment. I prefer raising 80-110% of the pot when I want to take it down on the flop in late position, and not betting at all when I am this close to risking my entire stack. Not on no pair at least.
 
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Mon Jun 13, 2011, 05:07 PM
(#3)
17oli17's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 5
WhiteStar
Cheers i see what you mean about pot odds and +Ev not being much use once I'm out of the tournament, i had a similar situation happen in a 'live' tournament at my local a few weeks ago. Again i had AKo the board came pretty dry and i was checked to i raise and she shoves but i manage to lay it down she shows pocket 9's (made trips on the flop), it took a while to convince my self but she is a pretty tight player and i had a good read, i think part of it is getting used to making better reads online also i think when the board is dry on hands like these i need to learn when to check instead of C-bet. Cheers for your help also thanks for the insight on the first hand, i have another hand that just busted me out of another PSO skill league tourney, i don't believe in luck but here i think i did get unlucky i think i played the hand pretty well i shall make a new thread to see what more experienced players like yourself think.

Thanks again
 
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Mon Jun 13, 2011, 05:17 PM
(#4)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,802
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
the first one... no problems at all with the way you played it.

The second one, you really need to muck it on the flop. You missed it and with their large bet, you know you're behind.
 
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Mon Jun 13, 2011, 06:18 PM
(#5)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
Second hand you cannot C-bet that flop. This is one of the worst C-betting flops you can ever see, especially when you're so shallow-stacked. AND you have a hand with a decent draw that might even be ahead already that you do not want to get check-raised off of (and which can't call a check-raise). Check behind on the flop here. Call a small bet on the turn or bet when checked to. Reevaluate on the river. I know it's passive but this board really sucks. I play to keep the pot as small as possible and maybe bluff-catch against some missed draws on the river. On this board every draw except yours and the heart draw comes in by the river so it would be an easy fold there.

Anytime the flop has two or more cards between an 8 and a J, or two broadway cards like QJ, think twice about C-betting, even when checked to. Especially when you have decent equity. Almost every hand that would call you preflop has hit this flop in some way. Maybe some weak ace or small pair can fold, but I'd rather wait until the turn to try anything.

Last edited by oriholic; Mon Jun 13, 2011 at 06:26 PM..
 

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